Which of these two only would you rather have for concealed carry defense?

[sixgunner455]

I have a Jframe, a Detective Special, and a Makarov. I have carried each of them, and would carry any of them.

My wife likes the Makarov best. She can't stand shooting the revolvers, but finds the Makarov very nice to shoot.

I like shooting the DS, and carrying the airweight Jframe best.

Easy to live with means a lot more than you might think, and it means different things to different people. Not every aspect of your list has the same weight. A stainless, airweight Jframe, for me, is easy to live with. The others have more compromises on the day-to-day carry of the pistol. Risk of rust, and extra weight are common between my two other small guns. My wife doesn't carry on her person, but in her purse. It's the only way she will carry, so I got her a purse for it. Weight is still something of an issue, but the Mak isn't that heavy. Finish isn't as important, because it's protected from all sides and isn't exposed to sweat like my gun is.

Ammo availability -- this is huge, too. We have to think hard about my wife's Mak. She shoots it a few times a year, so the current reduced ammo availability is not that big a problem since she isn't consuming much, but if she decided to shoot it more, or if there just wasn't any more at a price we could afford, then we might have to pay to get her into a different gun, or go to the expense and hassle of changing her barrel to 9x17.

No such issues with .38 Special. I load most of what I shoot on the bench in my garage. I could load for her, too, but I don't have dies for it, and the bullets are an oddball caliber that I've never seen for sale, except a few online dealers. They aren't cheap, either.

Between those two, long term? .38 revolver wins, hands down, because you'll be able to keep shooting it long term, parts are available (Mak parts availability went down to very slim when makarov.com closed their doors), and if you have a S&W, the factory will fix it for you if you have a problem, or you can usually find a competent revolver mechanic to work on it.

If there aren't parts, then they have to be manufactured to replace broken ones. Makes the Mak start to look like a fun gun to have in a collection, but less viable than it used to be as a defensive firearm.

 

[lee n. field]

1. A snub-nosed, 5-shot, small frame .38 special revolver,

or

2. A Makarov in 9x18mm?

Curious that you should make that comparison. I recently replaced my Makarov "in my affections" with a j-frame equivalent Taurus.

Capacity? Makarov, 2 more
Per-shot performance? About a wash between .38 special and 9mm mak, but arguably the .38 special with semi-jacketed soft lead bullet capability may have the edge in expansion - which caliber would you prefer for defense, all other things being equal?

Makarov 3 more, but I can shoot +P .38 or straight .357 in my wheelgun. Wheelgun trumps Mak here. And j frame speedloaders are cheaper than Mak magazines now.

Purchase price? Makarov. $25-$75 or so less, used vs. used, typically

Are Maks that high now? The Taurus was $325. For that I get a gun with a warranty (insert standard caveat about Taurus customer service here). I think I can still find Maks under $200, if I look. Can certainly find CZ-82 around that.

Slimmer? Makarov

Overall dimensions (H&L)? Makarov

Apples and oranges. With the exception of the cylinder, the revolver is skinnier. The shape of the revolver, particularly the grip area, is not constrained in the same way as an autoloader is. And, BTW, mine now wears Uncle Mike's Boot Grips that make it a tad smaller even than factory. Can not do that with the Mak.

Attached is a sizewise comparison between a Taurus 605 and a Makarov. It appears to be about a wash (but isn't). Note also that barrel + chamber length is right about the same.

Weight -- both these are steel, and I think they're right about the same weight. It's a wash. Both will beat up your hand if you shoot them a lot. The wheelguns go down to, I think, 13 oz, but I wouldn't want to shoot one that light.

Finish -- my wheelie is stainless. My Mak will pick up specks of surface rust at the drop of a hat. That's fixable, but factor in at least, what, a hundred bucks for a basic (gunpaint) refinishing.

Oh, yeah, the sights are bigger (better) too, on the revolver. Presbyopia (look it up, youngster) will creep up on you, sooner than you want. Again, it's something a competant smith can fix, but at a price.

 

[azredhawk44]

Xavier made my point for me:

I go with the .38 revolver for the ability to have the weapon stay in battery in close quarters/bad breath situations.

 

[rondog]

How come, rondog?

For all the above reasons everybody else has given. Plus, just compare the rounds side-by-side, that kind of settles it IMO. But I don't have a .38 snubbie, so I pack a Compact 1911. I bought the PA-63 because it was $129, or something like that, and I figure it'll make a good gun to put in the glovebox or hide somewhere in the house or garage. I'm thinking about a cheapo holster mounted up under my workbench that only I know about.

 

[lechiffre]

The ability to jam a handgun into somebody's ribs, pull the trigger and have the gun fire instead of being pushed out of battery is an important feature to me.

i don't think that would be a problem with a makarov. becase of the fixed barrel,the slide should stay in battery.



i would use the makarov

 

[Defensory]

Not a great choice either way, but if push came to shove, I'll go with the Makarov.

 

[yeti]

wheelgun.

 

[XavierBreath]

i don't think that would be a problem with a makarov. becase of the fixed barrel,the slide should stay in battery.

Empirical evidence is usually superior to supposition. Every Mak owner can check this issue for themselves.

Unload your Mak, and shove the muzzle into the palm of your hand. See if you agree that a revolver might be the better choice. The barrel of a Mak is fixed, but the slide is not. It is a blowback design. The slide is held forward by the recoil spring. The recoil spring compresses, the slide goes back.

When I do this with my Mak, it goes out of battery. Does yours?

 

[wideym]

If given an option of the two, the .38 wins every time. But if given a choise between a Mak or unarmed, I'll go armed every time, even if I have to carry a .22 derringer.

 

[lechiffre]

Empirical evidence is usually superior to supposition.

of course it is.

i do don't own a makarov.

i tested a few of the fixed barrel guns i have in the manner you described.

my results:

p7 - out of battery
hk4 - in battery
cz82 - in battery
ppk - in battery

 

[woad_yurt]

Definitely Makarov.

 

[Elvishead]

38 +p Gdhp

 

[onebigelf]

.38 with the old soft lead hydroshock wadcutters if you can find them. If you find some get me a couple of boxes, too, would you? They were guaranteed NOT to exit the human body and to expand to a guaranteed minimum of .60 from .357

John

 

[woad_yurt]

Before you go purchase, you gotta see if you can shoot a Mak. Accurate, reliable, 30 seconds to break down, rugged, a pure joy to shoot, easy to hit your target and a breeze to carry. In untold thousands of rounds shot through 3 Maks I've owned, I've had only one jam ever and that happened after shooting 500-600 rounds of Wolf without a cleaning. We were at the range all day and everybody was shooting that gun. After the one jam, we shot 200 or so more rounds without incident, still without a cleaning.

There are lots of revolvers that will get too tight to shoot after that many rounds, with the cylider face rubbing in front because it's coated with combustion deposits. Seeing as a reasonably clean Mak has never failed me, I'll put in another boost for the Mak.

PS: For those who think that 9x18 is too weak a caliber for self-defense, go shoot some wet newspaper bundles. It does just fine and is as strong (ft lbs)a load as the regular, old .38 SPL cop load they used for decades, which most think is just fine.

Edit thought: The Mak's hammer safety still functions when the safety is off. So, it's safe to drop and all one needs to do is pull the trigger for use, just like a DA revolver.

 

[PX15]

JMOFartO:

J-frame.

Add a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips and your favorite J-frame can become a "tack driver" at any reasonable self defense distance.

Just personal opinion/no offense to the Makkies.

Jesse



Other options for different situations are always a nice thing to have...

 

[wnycollector]

I had a russian mak that was my primary CCW for ~ a year. It was rugged and very reliable, but I sold it a few months ago when I got a SIG P6. I still have two J frames (638 and 36). They both get carried alot in the warm weather.

For me, now, the .38 J frame is the way to go for a CCW.

 

[AZAndy]

I have both a S&W 642 and a Russian Makarov IJ-70. I carry the 642 for these reasons:

1. Misfire/failure to fire? Pull the trigger again. Can't do that with the Mak.
2. I can shoot from inside a jacket pocket if I have to.
3. 642 will fire from any position or grip-- upside down, whatever.
4. I can press the muzzle against an antagonist and the 642 will fire.
5. 642 loaded weighs exactly one pound. Mak weighs 6.5 oz. more without a magazine.
6. 642 can be easily carried in a pants pocket.
7. A wide variety of loads are available for the .38 and .38+P. If you want a wide variety of loads for the 9x18, you're gonna be making them yourself (not that there's anything wrong with that).
8. I can put 158 grains out of the barrel as opposed to the 95-100 out of the Mak.

Only downsides I can see to the revolver are the small number of rounds and the slow reload.

I really, really like the Makarov. It points extremely well and I can empty it into a target in no time. If I didn't have the 642, I'd feel well-enough armed with the Makarov-- heck, I used to carry a .380, and that's just a light Makarov, more or less. I personally think of the 642 as a step up from the Mak, both as a gun and as a cartridge.

That's my opinion, since you asked. You may send my fee to the usual address. ;-)

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

It's the Ford vs. Chevy scenario.

At such a close range, if you were to have to defend yourself with a firearm, it's not going to matter whether it is a 9x18 Makarov or a .38 Special. If both are functioning properly, the end result should be the same.

However, that being said, I prefer and do carry my FEG PA-63 9x18 Makarov.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Very interesting.... thanks all.....

PX15: Nice rigs.

Thanks to Lee N. Field, Xavierbreath, SixGunner455, AZ Andy, woad yurt, & others for the in-depth analysis.

Surprised that the results are so lopsided in favor of the revolver - thought the response would be closer to 50/50.

Good points about the revolver:
-Coming with a warranty (albeit slow/crappy in the case of Taurus), and
-Having the CT laser grip ability (though I did mention aftermarket accessories and holsters on page 1).

Think I'll keep the revolver for sure. I like the .38 special round for stopping power. On paper (energy), it may not best the 9mm Mak, but in reality, a wide meplat, soft nosed bullet is gonna perform well.

Oh, great, now I "want" CT grips for this revolver here; thanks a lot!

P.S. if .357 mag is the gun, then clearly it wins. But I was comparing .38 spec. only, since I frankly don't care to shoot that much of a blaster from a small frame gun - unpleasant and unnecessary.

 

[Treo]

Glock

 

[bluetopper]

I have a Makarov (not a PA-63 or CZ-82 or any other that shoots 9x18) stashed in every vehicle I own plus a few in various places in the house. I am well stocked with a few cases of 9x18 ammo I mail ordered a couple years back so ammo is not an issue.

My vote goes to the Makarov.

 

[Hoffy]

I like my makarovs. Of all the guns I own, my Maks are by far the most enjoyable to shoot. Also, I'm a guy with 10 thumbs who is not at all mechanically inclined and and I actually was able to swap out the sear on my Makarov. The fact that it only has something like 30 parts (33 with the magizine) has something to do with that.

However, I agree with 2075 Rami on the Ford vs. Chevy thing...mostly depending on the scenarios envisioned.

I also second the point that Makarov ammo is pretty cheap, as long as you order it at a number of online places (www.wideners.com has top notch 9x18 ammo for $8.50 per box).

Finally, I'm not much of a math guy, but I think the makarov will hold 4 more rounds than the j-frame...8 in the magazine and one in the pipe.

 

[Bigdtc]

Mak. PA-63 Light reliable in my experience and internet Wolf ammo is plentiful and cheap.

 

[fastbolt]

Which of these two only would you rather have for concealed carry defense?
1. A snub-nosed, 5-shot, small frame .38 special revolver,
or
2. A Makarov in 9x18mm?

S&W J-frame.

Why?

A combination of things.

I dislike carrying Eastern Bloc surplus handguns as defensive weapons. Parts, ammunition and related gear isn't quite as easily available as it often is for .38 Special, and who knows what will remain available in the near future?

The 9x18mm is roughly akin to the .380 ACP, but arguably lacks the development and availability of modern, refined defensive hollowpoint ammunition.

Now, some folks like collecting and shooting military and police surplus firearms from foreign countries, and that's fine. I have a P-38 stored away somewhere, I think, and I even knew a handful of guys who carried them as off-duty weapons back when I was new in the LE business. I haven't seen someone choose one for that role for many years, though, FWIW.

I prefer the 5-shot .38 Special for my off-duty defensive needs. Improvements in the design, materials and defensive ammunition suits my perceived needs and preferences. I can't make that decision for anyone else, though.

Individual users/owners need to take into consideration their own needs and desires, as well as their knowledge, skills and abilities to safely and effectively use whatever platform they decide upon.

Not everyone may find a traditional double action revolver ... let alone a short-barreled, lightweight, diminutive DAO revolver ... to their liking. I've always had the opinion that learning to safely, accurately and effectively shoot and reload a short-barreled revolver requires more of the user than larger, heavier revolvers ... and not everyone has had exposure to shooting DA/DAO revolvers, let along proper training in shooting them.

I've learned to make it a point to avoid 'recommending' a handgun design/caliber/model to someone unless I have the opportunity to become familiar with their knowledge, experience and skill-set.

Whenever one of our folks asks this sort of question of me, I avoid making generalized recommendations and suggest they try examples of whatever it is that interests them out on the firing line before making the decision for themselves.

Just my thoughts.

 

[jad0110]

I'd just go with the one you are more accurate with ... go fire 'em both and see how you do.

For me, I'd go J Frame, as that is what I am far more familiar/comfortable with.