I have been looking for a small 22lr handgun and have come across the choice of two in my area. i don't want to spend a lot on a small gun as it won't be shot much at all, just taken out every now and then to have a little fun. my choices are a used taurus pt22 looks like stainless for $225.00 otd or a brand new phoenix arms 22 for $150 otd. the taurus looks good and i would give the gun a 90 out of a 100 on finish, the mag tho has a good bit of wear, function seemed good and barrel was good. the phoenix is new and looks good. which would ya'll choose and why? also is there anything i need to buy for them as extra's that might break over time?, like springs, buffers ect. thanks for the help
which one?
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Riomouse911
Member
Between the Taurus or the Phoenix... I would buy the Taurus myself.
Phoenix Arms is, literally, the company that rose from the ashes of Jennings Firearms and Raven Arms. Those Jennings-family owned companies were purveyors of utterly junky, zinc-slide “Saturday night specials” in the 1980-1990s. If I had a dollar for every broke down, jammed, crappy Jennings-Bryco-Raven I saw taken from crooks and thugs in the 1990s I could buy a new Smith &Wesson and have extra for ammo.
Stay away from Phoenix, period.,
Phoenix Arms is, literally, the company that rose from the ashes of Jennings Firearms and Raven Arms. Those Jennings-family owned companies were purveyors of utterly junky, zinc-slide “Saturday night specials” in the 1980-1990s. If I had a dollar for every broke down, jammed, crappy Jennings-Bryco-Raven I saw taken from crooks and thugs in the 1990s I could buy a new Smith &Wesson and have extra for ammo.
Stay away from Phoenix, period.,
Armored farmer
Member
Take a look at a ruger sr22.
They're good guns.
They're good guns.
I would but I only have a little over $200 to spend and can't save any more till after Christmas
badkarmamib
Member
If I were forced to choose between the two, I would probably take the Taurus. But, I would beg to be allowed to make a decision after Christmas, when more funds offered more choices.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Between the two, my first choice is Taurus second choice would be neither.
You may want to consider this;
https://www.cdnnsports.com/steyr-rfp-22lr.html#.W7bBDPZRdPY
Steyr makes quality guns, I have a 9mm and a 40. No first hand knowledge of this gun though.
You may want to consider this;
https://www.cdnnsports.com/steyr-rfp-22lr.html#.W7bBDPZRdPY
Steyr makes quality guns, I have a 9mm and a 40. No first hand knowledge of this gun though.
I have always regretted going cheap when buying a firearm. I don't have any experience with the two .22's you listed but I have shot enough cheap .22's to know they can be finicky and very picky about what ammo will function properly. The finicky pistols that I have owned were not fun to shoot, never taken out to shoot and ended up being a waste of money.
With the Ruger Mark IV's out used Mark II's, and Mark III's have really come down in price. I would hold out and look for a used Ruger if I were you.
http://www.armslist.com/classifieds...USD&tag=22-long-rifle&tag=pistol&tag=revolver
There are a couple Walther's in your price range, a decent looking S&W and a Ruger SR22 that might be worth checking out.
With the Ruger Mark IV's out used Mark II's, and Mark III's have really come down in price. I would hold out and look for a used Ruger if I were you.
http://www.armslist.com/classifieds...USD&tag=22-long-rifle&tag=pistol&tag=revolver
There are a couple Walther's in your price range, a decent looking S&W and a Ruger SR22 that might be worth checking out.
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MedWheeler
Member
I own both, and have for some time, so I do have experience with them.
The Phoenix is the more-fun shooter. It holds ten rounds, has a crisp and consistent single-action trigger (that drops a real hammer, unlike the "other" Zamak-cheap-class pistol out there), and has a rear sight that is at least adjustable for windage. The guns weight is well balanced, too. I was very pleased when I got mine back in 2009, and remember feeling impressed with it right away. It's surprisingly accurate to where I've tried it.
That being said, the HP22A is complicated. It has two (yes, two!) manual safeties; the right combination of positioning is required to make the gun go bang (okay, pow.) In addition to those, there are three passive safeties. One requires the lower manual one (the trigger-blocker) to be engaged to remove the magazine (but it then has to be off to rack the slide. Imagine trying a quick reload under those requirements!) Another is the common mag-out safety, and the third locks the slide closed if there is no magazine in place (how are you then supposed to clear the chamber? You unload the magazine, re-insert it, put the lower safety off, rack the slide, put the lower safety back on, and remove the magazine again!)
The Taurus fills the hand even better than the Phoenix (my hand, anyway) with its thicker grip. It's a bit lighter than the HP22A, and holds eight rounds in its magazine. The DAO trigger has a long pull (which doubles as a safety feature; you're not gonna accidentally fire this gun.) Sights are rudimentary, a small front post visible through a cut in the rear sight, and not adjustable at all. Think self-defense sights, like those on a J-frame. The tip-up barrel aids loading and clearing, as you're not gonna be able to pull that thin, hard-to-grip slide back against the beefy, hammer-pounding mainspring and dual recoil springs (which are within the grips; that's why the grip is so, uh, robust.) I like DA/SA and DAO pistols, and trained a lot on them, so the PT22 trigger does not bother me at all. I found the gun pretty darn accurate with that trigger and those crude sights. I got mine, made in 1998, in 2012.
The Taurus also has the mag-out safety, and the mag-out chamber-lock. However, with the latter, you can still simply tip up the breech without a magazine in place to clear the gun. You also need not strip the Taurus to clean it because of that feature.
Were I to be picking between the two, I'd go with the Taurus. If I'd bought mine first, I'd never have bought the Phoenix. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a burn-up-hundreds-of-rounds-at-a-time plinker or range gun, and the PT22 can be fun in the casual sense you're alluding to. It can also double as a defense piece, since it can be carried loaded and ready to "pull, point, and press-to-play." There is a manual safety lever for those people (or jurisdictions) who require them, but I never use it. That heavy trigger is safety enough (again, like a J-frame.)
Both pistols, being the small, heavily-sprung rimfires that they are, do well on good-quality ammunition. I'm not dumb enough to run cheap, bulk-packed ammo in a tiny blowback and then complain the gun is a POS when it chokes a bit on it. I've only shot CCI MiniMags in the Phoenix, and only those and Federal AutoMatch in the Taurus. Have not had a malfunction with either load, in either gun.
The Phoenix is the more-fun shooter. It holds ten rounds, has a crisp and consistent single-action trigger (that drops a real hammer, unlike the "other" Zamak-cheap-class pistol out there), and has a rear sight that is at least adjustable for windage. The guns weight is well balanced, too. I was very pleased when I got mine back in 2009, and remember feeling impressed with it right away. It's surprisingly accurate to where I've tried it.
That being said, the HP22A is complicated. It has two (yes, two!) manual safeties; the right combination of positioning is required to make the gun go bang (okay, pow.) In addition to those, there are three passive safeties. One requires the lower manual one (the trigger-blocker) to be engaged to remove the magazine (but it then has to be off to rack the slide. Imagine trying a quick reload under those requirements!) Another is the common mag-out safety, and the third locks the slide closed if there is no magazine in place (how are you then supposed to clear the chamber? You unload the magazine, re-insert it, put the lower safety off, rack the slide, put the lower safety back on, and remove the magazine again!)
The Taurus fills the hand even better than the Phoenix (my hand, anyway) with its thicker grip. It's a bit lighter than the HP22A, and holds eight rounds in its magazine. The DAO trigger has a long pull (which doubles as a safety feature; you're not gonna accidentally fire this gun.) Sights are rudimentary, a small front post visible through a cut in the rear sight, and not adjustable at all. Think self-defense sights, like those on a J-frame. The tip-up barrel aids loading and clearing, as you're not gonna be able to pull that thin, hard-to-grip slide back against the beefy, hammer-pounding mainspring and dual recoil springs (which are within the grips; that's why the grip is so, uh, robust.) I like DA/SA and DAO pistols, and trained a lot on them, so the PT22 trigger does not bother me at all. I found the gun pretty darn accurate with that trigger and those crude sights. I got mine, made in 1998, in 2012.
The Taurus also has the mag-out safety, and the mag-out chamber-lock. However, with the latter, you can still simply tip up the breech without a magazine in place to clear the gun. You also need not strip the Taurus to clean it because of that feature.
Were I to be picking between the two, I'd go with the Taurus. If I'd bought mine first, I'd never have bought the Phoenix. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a burn-up-hundreds-of-rounds-at-a-time plinker or range gun, and the PT22 can be fun in the casual sense you're alluding to. It can also double as a defense piece, since it can be carried loaded and ready to "pull, point, and press-to-play." There is a manual safety lever for those people (or jurisdictions) who require them, but I never use it. That heavy trigger is safety enough (again, like a J-frame.)
Both pistols, being the small, heavily-sprung rimfires that they are, do well on good-quality ammunition. I'm not dumb enough to run cheap, bulk-packed ammo in a tiny blowback and then complain the gun is a POS when it chokes a bit on it. I've only shot CCI MiniMags in the Phoenix, and only those and Federal AutoMatch in the Taurus. Have not had a malfunction with either load, in either gun.
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cheygriz
member
Save your money and get something after Xmas that shoots on other days beside saturday.
I had the 25ACP variant of the PT22 and had nothing but success. Mine was an older model from the later seventies.This one had no "key lock". Does the gun in question have a "key lock" ?
Overall though it is a 9+1 gun, really low report and recoil .
I have walked your shoes and still do my friend. I am buying a .22LR Iver Johnson revolver for about 100 soon. Just wanted a good beater revolver for a tackle box. I'll cold blue it and throw it in a box ya know? or just plink. Back to OP, I'd keep away from the Phoenix. Simply put, the Taurus is a BETTER gun.
That Taurus is reliable enough(in 22, find GOOD ammo and test it) and will do what you need it to. It will always be by your side/in a pocket and works well at that. Better than having nothing but verbal judo to save you. Trust me...I had my PT25 and it was VERY close to having to save my life. I wasn't thinking "oh crap I don't have enough gun" I was thinking "thank god I have a gun, this guy is huge" and gripped it tight in a coat pocket... Never had to draw, but it's easy to deploy and fire...easy fist sized group type of gun. Tip up barrel is easy to use and clean. So, if you need a .22 get the Taurus for now. If you don't like it, sell it and get something newer or nicer around Christmas. They are fun pocket rockets if you ask me.
As far as buffers or parts go....the Taurus guns in .22/.25 have been known after a long round count to need a new buffer. Pick up a few cheap and every few hundred rounds throw one in it. You can buy gold parts as well to accent your gun if you like. Taurus made a few gold trim models. I liked it with the black and rosewood but never did it. I thought the EASIEST way to use the Taurus was to GRIP the slide serrations TIGHT and QUICKLY yank back and let go. I think it really comes to grip and commitment. Granted if you have weakness in either area it WILL be hard. It is a tough spring but with practice can be easily reloaded quickly. I know you suggested that this will be just a fun gun, but to me guns are tools. Situations change, and sometimes you are forced to make use of tools you normally wouldn't. That being said, I think the Taurus is a better tool.
Overall though it is a 9+1 gun, really low report and recoil .
I have walked your shoes and still do my friend. I am buying a .22LR Iver Johnson revolver for about 100 soon. Just wanted a good beater revolver for a tackle box. I'll cold blue it and throw it in a box ya know? or just plink. Back to OP, I'd keep away from the Phoenix. Simply put, the Taurus is a BETTER gun.
That Taurus is reliable enough(in 22, find GOOD ammo and test it) and will do what you need it to. It will always be by your side/in a pocket and works well at that. Better than having nothing but verbal judo to save you. Trust me...I had my PT25 and it was VERY close to having to save my life. I wasn't thinking "oh crap I don't have enough gun" I was thinking "thank god I have a gun, this guy is huge" and gripped it tight in a coat pocket... Never had to draw, but it's easy to deploy and fire...easy fist sized group type of gun. Tip up barrel is easy to use and clean. So, if you need a .22 get the Taurus for now. If you don't like it, sell it and get something newer or nicer around Christmas. They are fun pocket rockets if you ask me.
As far as buffers or parts go....the Taurus guns in .22/.25 have been known after a long round count to need a new buffer. Pick up a few cheap and every few hundred rounds throw one in it. You can buy gold parts as well to accent your gun if you like. Taurus made a few gold trim models. I liked it with the black and rosewood but never did it. I thought the EASIEST way to use the Taurus was to GRIP the slide serrations TIGHT and QUICKLY yank back and let go. I think it really comes to grip and commitment. Granted if you have weakness in either area it WILL be hard. It is a tough spring but with practice can be easily reloaded quickly. I know you suggested that this will be just a fun gun, but to me guns are tools. Situations change, and sometimes you are forced to make use of tools you normally wouldn't. That being said, I think the Taurus is a better tool.
A buddy of mine has an HP22. It's one of the worst two pistols I've ever shot, but most people have better luck. Please note that it's cast out of zinc, much like a Hot Wheels car, and that it can't fire hyper velocity .22's without severe risk of cracking the frame. And the recoil spring is some silly little thing that does needs replacement every 500 rounds.
That's not a particularly good price on the PT22. TSS Warehouse has new ones for $220.70 (free shipping + transfer). Otherwise, I have no particular knowledge of the PT22, but I do know of Taurus' reputation.
I would suggest to keep looking.
That's not a particularly good price on the PT22. TSS Warehouse has new ones for $220.70 (free shipping + transfer). Otherwise, I have no particular knowledge of the PT22, but I do know of Taurus' reputation.
I would suggest to keep looking.
MedWheeler
Member
JayZee writes:
For some reason, I have two of them also, in addition to my PT22. They're just guns I picked up used, on whims. One is the blued version, made in 1996, and lacks the lock. The other is the stainless version, made in 2013, I think, and does have the lock. That latter one I found in a pawn shop complete with case, book, rod, two extra magazines, and two extra pairs of grips. Someone was really into their PT25.
For some reason, I have two of them also, in addition to my PT22. They're just guns I picked up used, on whims. One is the blued version, made in 1996, and lacks the lock. The other is the stainless version, made in 2013, I think, and does have the lock. That latter one I found in a pawn shop complete with case, book, rod, two extra magazines, and two extra pairs of grips. Someone was really into their PT25.
MedWheeler
Member
By the way, I did pick up a used, duotone Bersa Thunder 22 a few days ago for $175. If you got lucky enough to find all three guns at the same time for the prices mentioned, the Bersa would be the way to go.
bannockburn
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old fart
Given a choice between the two I would: A) opt for the Taurus PT22, or B) save up your money and look for something used like a Ruger SR22 or a Bersa Thunder 22.
Given a choice between the two I would: A) opt for the Taurus PT22, or B) save up your money and look for something used like a Ruger SR22 or a Bersa Thunder 22.
MosinT53Hunter
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Don't forget the surplus Beretta 71 in 22. Fantastic little pistols!
bassjam
Member
I'm in agreement with most of the others; I'd pick the Taurus if I had to choose, but I'd rather wait until I had more funds. I doubt I'd ever buy the Phoenix.
Tallball
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I wasn't sure that the OP meant the HP22a. To go into more detail...
I got the Taurus PT22 used for around $150, and after some hundreds of rounds eventually it needed a new plastic buffer. I paid $20 or so to ship it to to them, and they shipped it back with a buffer and all new springs. It worked fine until the buffer flew out, and it's worked fine since then. The trigger isn't the greatest, but it goes bang every time. Mine is nickle with rosewood grips and is actually very good-looking. I really like the tip-up barrel.
For complicated reasons I bought an HP22a. I've read mostly good things about them online. The safeties are annoying. Since it is bigger, I can shoot it a little more accurately than the Taurus. I paid $84 for it used. The first time I shot it, it had about one failure to fire (light strike on the primer, apparently) per magazine. I had not cleaned it before I shot it. Since then I have cleaned it and hope that will solve the problem. If not, it may need a new hammer spring. I hope to find out tomorrow morning.
View media item 1897
I got the Taurus PT22 used for around $150, and after some hundreds of rounds eventually it needed a new plastic buffer. I paid $20 or so to ship it to to them, and they shipped it back with a buffer and all new springs. It worked fine until the buffer flew out, and it's worked fine since then. The trigger isn't the greatest, but it goes bang every time. Mine is nickle with rosewood grips and is actually very good-looking. I really like the tip-up barrel.
For complicated reasons I bought an HP22a. I've read mostly good things about them online. The safeties are annoying. Since it is bigger, I can shoot it a little more accurately than the Taurus. I paid $84 for it used. The first time I shot it, it had about one failure to fire (light strike on the primer, apparently) per magazine. I had not cleaned it before I shot it. Since then I have cleaned it and hope that will solve the problem. If not, it may need a new hammer spring. I hope to find out tomorrow morning.
View media item 1897
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MedWheeler
Member
For the benefit of the OP, and anyone else perusing this thread who is considering the Taurus, I should point out that, being a tip-up loader, the gun does not have an extractor (neither does the Beretta, to which the Taurus is often compared.) With no extractor, racking the slide will not clear the chamber, and will result in jamming any next round in the magazine into the rear of the one already chambered. This is why, in casual shooting, there should be no reason to rack the slide. In rapid re-loading, you can still use the slide to charge an empty chamber, though.
Also, I don't think the PT22 is still offered by Taurus. The current version is the PLY-22, which has a rounded trigger guard, a slightly-shorter barrel, and a grip frame of polymer instead of aluminum. Personally, I find the PT-series more attractive than the PLY-series guns.
Also, I don't think the PT22 is still offered by Taurus. The current version is the PLY-22, which has a rounded trigger guard, a slightly-shorter barrel, and a grip frame of polymer instead of aluminum. Personally, I find the PT-series more attractive than the PLY-series guns.
bannockburn
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MosinT53Hunter
Those are nice, dependable medium frame size .22s. Bud's Gun Shop has them for $299.
Those are nice, dependable medium frame size .22s. Bud's Gun Shop has them for $299.
MedWheeler
Member
^^ Though crippled by the fake can (to me, at least.)
bannockburn
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MedWheeler
Yes this is true but the faux suppressor seems to be easily removed (at least according to several videos that I watched)!
Yes this is true but the faux suppressor seems to be easily removed (at least according to several videos that I watched)!
MosinT53Hunter
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I took mine off, has a nice balance now. So light too!
Save your money and get something after Xmas that shoots on other days beside saturday.
Get something with a real brand name. Save your money while you are waiting. Ruger, Beretta, Hi- Standard,
and a half dozen other reputable names are only going to run you 75 to 125 $ more used.
bannockburn
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MosinT53Hunter
I have a Model 70S and even though it is based on a medium size frame and has all steel construction, the gun itself has never felt heavy or oversized for a .22.
Beretta got this one just right!
I have a Model 70S and even though it is based on a medium size frame and has all steel construction, the gun itself has never felt heavy or oversized for a .22.
Beretta got this one just right!
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