Which Scope for Rimfire CZ

[Skylerbone]

As the title states, I'm looking for a scope. I have a CZ 452 Trainer, Talley high rings arriving soon, and I'm considering new glass.

My sensible half says throw one of my vintage Tasco 3-9 X scopes on and be done. My enthusiast side says do right by it all the way. So I'm looking for suggestions and hopefully experience with any of the following:

The Leupold 3-9 X 33 E.F.R. Current leader in my mind.
The Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9 X 32 Extremely curious if they're as good as their reputation
The Nikon ProStaff E.F.R. 3-9 X 40 I already own a Nikon P-22 (2-7 X) which has been good enough for hunting purposes, but curious about this one.
Your personal favorite rimfire appropriate scope.

I included the Nikon since this is likely a range only rifle and because it retails for 1/2 the price of the Leupold. Specifically I would appreciate knowing about fitment issues with CZs, reticle choices and issues, and clarity under typical (good weather) range conditions. I am happy to entertain alternate suggestions so long as they provide a means of focusing to say 15 yds. and the occular and objective aren't too large. Thank you in advance.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I had a Leupold 2x7 rimfire on a CZ 455 American and was extremely happy with the set up.

 

[Sniper66]

I've had several scopes on several different rimfires......Weaver, Redfield, Leupold, Bushnell, Nikon.......the best and my favorite has been the Leupold VX II 3.5-8X 36mm mounted on my Remington 541S. I currently have a Bushnell Elite 4-16X AO on a 17Mach2, which works well as a squirrel rifle if you don't mind making quick adjustments on the fly. It permits long shots and consistent accuracy. But, for consistent clarity of vision, that particular Leupold is going to be very hard to beat, especially mounted on one of the best .22s ever.. I put a Leupold VX 3i 3-5-10X on a Sako FinnFire II 17HMR for squirrel hunting, but,..... great set up, wrong target. It'll work well for prairie doggin' , but not good for close shooting in the woods. Actually, speaking of favorites, I have a Leupold VX 3 3.5.10X (older version of the 3i) mounted on my Anschutz 1517MPR and it is my favorite prairie dog rifle and scope. All the other scopes listed above cannot match the fine visibility offered by Leupold. Had a Leupold VX I 2-7X on a Ruger 10/22 Target model and sold it.....shoulda kept the scope.

 

[cdb1]

I have the Clearidge, on a CZ, it is outstanding. If money hadn't been an issue when it was time to purchase the scope I'd have bought the VX-2 3-9 EFR.

Now that I've had the Clearidge for several years I've compared it with a VX-2 3-9x40 that's on my sons 30-06. Glass wise I cannot see an advantage with the VX-2. At longer distances it might show up but we are talking Rimfire.

 

[1stmarine]

It really depends on what type of shooting you do.
If this is to kill squirrels in the yard or barn up to 50 yards any somewhat decent scope will do.
However if you like target and/or hunting perhaps all the way to 200 even 250 yards then you need to think about adjustment due to the type of trajectory here.
Here some people like the same scopes as large calibers for consistence or at least similar ones with the same type of adjustment.
Like always you cannot beat a scope with meaningful and consistent units of measure and perhaps the turrets to match.
I think budget goes up quickly if one starts with quality glass and then looks for some nice features in the reticle and what not.
Also if you have enough magnification range this will allow you to zero the rifle at 100 yards and trace your shots w/o the need for a secondary optics.
The brands and models are subjective because I highly suggest you look through them. What it looks great to me it might not look good to you starting
by adjusting the ocular piece and then looking at different objects at different distances with different contrast and magnifications.
We all have different set of eyes so this is like buying glasses and sunglasses, it is very particular sometimes.
Nikon initially makes decent scopes. Do not expect a lot of features but decent picture and the 2-7 initially are great budget scopes for a 22lr
like many other utilitarian rifles but not for target or longer ranges specially small targets and longer distances with this type of trajectory.
In the Leopold line the VX2 seems like a great value for a proven scope with great glass.
Weaver makes a scope line called tactical and most are in the $800 range wiht jap glass and tubes. But they have one Midway special that uses
the same japanese glass and tubes and it is a 3-10x with a mil-mil set up and positive clicks. reticle is a mil army dot. No parallax and 2nd focal plane
but that is understandable for a budget scope. I got a few of those for the mid range 'budget' ARs. you can find them discounted in ebay now
and at midway from time to time.
Some folks like the chinese made Vortex Crossfire but IMO the glass is not the same as their other scopes.
I think in terms of glass the leupolds and camera quality japanese are hard to bit to start with.
But if you like target and strech the legs of the 22LR you might want to go for a higher magnification.
Whatever you choose I would see if I can look through it and get a feeling for the glass and features and how you want to use it.
It really depends on how you are intending to enjoy this rifle.

 

[Skylerbone]

I own rifle scopes from Tasco (Japanese, Taiwanese, and wherever they make them at present), Bushnell, Hawke, Nikon (P-Series, Buckmaster), Sightron, Pride Fowler (Rapid Reticle), Leupold (3 Mark ARs, VX-3), and Minox so I'm no stranger to differing levels of quality and I mount my own scopes with a clear understanding of set-up.

What I don't have locally are examples of the 3 models mentioned so this will be a blind purchase. More magnification isn't in the cards for now because my daughter is practicing at 15 and 25 yds currently and will probably need another year or two before she gets behind the CZ (so I'll have to keep it ready).

If at some point down the road she wishes to hunt with this specific rifle I'll probably swap in a Leupold fixed 4X. More likely scenario is a 452 American if I can hunt one down by then.

I think I'm 95% sold on the Leupold over Clearidge due to a few fine points of difference in warranty as the price difference is negligible. Now I need to decide between reticles.

 

[paulsj]

I have Zeiss 3-9x42 on my Norinco Brno sporter copy. I'm very satisfied with this setup.

 

[1stmarine]

Of those that you mentioned the VX-2 is the best IMO. hard to go wrong with a VX2.
I think they have a BDC reticle (LR) that will give you some holdover points and since you don't have
fast turrets this will work with the comp design. Still you can order a drop turret, they sell them custom if you want.

 

[redneck2]

I have a 4-14x40 VX-3 on my CZ 453 Varminter. Lotta money for a rimfire, but with target ammo I've shot groups in the .2's @ 50 yards and multiple groups in the .4's. My eyes aren't the best, and you can only shoot as small as you can see. If you've got 14x, you can dial down to 10x but you can't dial a 2-7 up to 10x

I expect to hit the last bullet hole @ 50 yards.

My problem with buying a less desirable scope is that once I have it, I I keep it and use it. Since I keep scopes, I buy something I want to keep

The VX-2 seems like a good value.

HTH

 

[Skylerbone]

Update: my rings arrived Friday and I threw on the Tasco to have a look at clearance. It's difficult to give a definitive number with the short reach of my dial caliper but it looks to be .137" with a total clearance of ~.384" to the rear sight and the current set-up. A longer scope of around 14"+ should have the objective far enough forward to miss the rear sight entirely.

What I think I can divine from this is that a 40mm Leupold probably won't fit without a change of rings. I can confirm the Talleys at .600" from top of dovetail to bottom of saddle.

On needing more magnification: I have often wondered if I would be a better shot with more, but I can say at 50 yds. with both this rifle and a Marlin, my best groups are hanging in right at .400"/5-shots with 7X and 9X scopes. Those are a Nikon P-22 and the Tasco pictured below (a $20 used purchase, and I don't recall if I bought a pair for $20 or gave $20 a piece). My conclusion is that for my needs it's enough magnification for now.

I am a bit discouraged by Leupold's choice of reticles/finishes but in the E.F.R. line-up they are as follows:

Gloss with Duplex.
Matte with Fine Duplex.
Matte with Wind Plex CDS.

I have used the CDS system before on a VX-3 (my father's) and he reached out off hand at nearly 400 yds for a 1-shot kill so I know it works. What I'm not familiar with is the "Wind Plex" and its subtensions compared with standard and fine crosshairs. Still, I feel like I'm making headway.

A few pictures.

 

[greyling22]

I guess you could.go with a Burris timberline 4-12x. It's a very slim a d compact scope. I think quality is roughly in par with the ff2 line.

I have a Weaver grand slam 3-12ao on my cz.

 

[chicharrones]

Update: my rings arrived Friday and I threw on the Tasco to have a look at clearance. It's difficult to give a definitive number with the short reach of my dial caliper but it looks to be .137" with a total clearance of ~.384" to the rear sight and the current set-up. A longer scope of around 14"+ should have the objective far enough forward to miss the rear sight entirely.

What I think I can divine from this is that a 40mm Leupold probably won't fit without a change of rings. I can confirm the Talleys at .600" from top of dovetail to bottom of saddle.

I also have a 452 Trainer and am thinking about scoping it due to my eyes. How is the bolt handle clearance on that CZ with that scope and rings?

How about cheek weld? Will the gun need a cheek piece added?

 

[Skylerbone]

Just did some poking around on the Timberline which sounded very promising. Unfortunately it seems the trade-off is either removing the CZ's rear sight or moving cheek position rearward to compensate for the 5" eye relief. A shame really, as it looks by most counts and anecdotal evidence to be an ideal scope for rimfire with its compact length and 7 yard focal length.

Chiccarones, I'll snap a pic after work today, my apologies for not thinking of it as it's definitely a critical factor with the CZ bolt. I can say I cycled the action without issue. On cheek weld, I purchased a Cheek Eez 1/4" self-adhesive pad in anticipation of needing it and I can say I wouldn't mind a full 5/8" if they made one but it was still reasonable considering the Trainer's stock. I know other risers are available but I've had one of these on an HS Precision stock since 2010 and it still looks good.

I may mock up a Bushnell 3-9 tonight for fun or perhaps the new Minox to verify the 40mm objective fit. Still looking really hard at that VX-2 though and wanting to decide before the holiday weekend sales end.

 

[I6turbo]

I have a bunch of CZ hog back guns, most of them scoped. I don't enjoy shooting a scoped hog back gun unless the scope is mounted LOW so I can get a pretty good cheek weld. (That is, without an add-on riser.) That requires selecting the right set of low rings and a scope with a small enough ocular bell to clear the bolt, and a short enough overall length to fit behind the rear sight. One other option on length is to remove the rear sight leaf, allowing a slightly longer scope to be mounted low.

From what I've seen, some of the highest quality, most cost-effective scope lines that work well for low-mounting on the CZ hog back guns is the redesigned Weaver Grand Slam series, and Super Slam series. They are available in a range of magnification powers including 3-12x and 4-16x (5-20x in the Super Slam), offering a good range of magnification for hunting and/or target shooting. And the quality of the glass is quite good. Natchez Shooting Supplies usually has the best prices on these scopes. Here's a couple of Grand Slams that CZ owners on rimfirecentral.com have used with good success on the hog back guns.

https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-re...scope-4-16x44mm-23-4-6-3-3-46-3-15-matte.html
https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-re...scope-3-12x42mm-33-0-8-4-3-46-3-19-matte.html

You said this will be a range-only rifle, which IME means more than 9X will be required if you want to shoot your best groups at more than 50 yards or so. The 4-16X above would get you by at 100 yards, even though most people who get serious about target shooting want 20-24X if not more to shoot their best groups at 100 yards.

Here's how the 4-16 Grand Slam looks on a hog back CZ.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9310969&postcount=13

 

[Skylerbone]

I6, I've seen your full stocks in the forums before. And I drooled a bit. A lot. Certainly an increase in magnification would likely make things more interesting but my daughter is 10 years old at present and is limited in experience to peep sights and a very basic Tasco 4X. I fear 14 or 16X, let alone 24 would be overwhelming. If I were keeping it for myself I'd be tempted to buy a Mueller 8-32X and use up my stash of Lapua.

As much as I like the Trainer's sights I'm almost wishing it were clean to accommodate lower rings, but scoping it is a compromise and as I mentioned if she gets serious about her rifles there's probably a new 452 or 455 American in her future with her choice of a hunting or target optic. I gambled on the Talley High Rings being necessary for the Leupold 3-9 to fit and I'm thinking that was correct (they only offer High or Low) and I'm picky about rings.

 

[I6turbo]

The higher mag scopes are usually physically larger but of course you can turn the variable power down to the lower power ranges if the higher range is too much in some cases. That's what I've done when shooting with my kids and it works pretty well, though a light-weight fixed 4x is hard to beat, like you said.

In case it helps, here's the difference between a straight-stocked American and a hog-back CZ when you use low rings on the hog-back and more "standard height" rings on the straight-stocked guns. The hog-back gun in this photo actually fits me at least as well (comfort and fit wise) if not better than the American as these two are currently set up.



I have boys 9 and 13 so I've been dealing with what you're contemplating here. Another thing to keep in mind with kids is that their heads are overall quite a bit smaller than ours, so the whole thing of cheek fit/cheek weld is different, so your idea of a riser may be a good one while your daughter is small, regardless of the scope fitment height.

 

[Skylerbone]

Pictures of bolt clearance as promised. I6 I'm definitely paying attention, and I appreciate the pictures. My oldest is 13 but nearly 6' tall ranging down to my 8 year old who has yet to crack 60 lbs. We've gone through the Savage Cub and Rascal (daughter's current rifle) with the oldest graduating to a 10/22, a TC muzzleloader, and most recently a .357 lever.

Every scope mounting has brought a challenge with head positioning but they've adapted fairly well to risers even when improvised with foam wrapped in camo tape. She'll still be hitting the woods with her single-shot for a bit though with plenty of time to figure out whether the combo I choose now will ultimately work out. If not, I'll simply shuffle scopes to a more appropriate option.

 

[Skylerbone]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! I really wanted to leave the rear sight leaf alone for fear of misplacing it but I also wanted to mock up a 40mm objective. Lo and behold it fit and with room to spare!

As I6turbo mentioned position, position, position! This is the Minox ZV 3, 3-9 X 40 in the same high mounts. A few specifics: 4" stated and measured eye relief at my natural position, overall length is 12 3/8" with around 5/16" to spare before contacting the rear sight base (fore and aft positioning). Actual objective diameter is 1.950" with approximately .225" of bottom clearance.

That leaves the door open for the VX 2 4-12 X 40 AO...which I just ordered while writing this! Taking a chance on "Wind Plex" and opted for CDS. I may just re-think rings if I can find a set that will allow a lower profile. Stay tuned and fingers crossed it ships quickly!

 

[cdb1]

How do you like the Minox?

 

[Skylerbone]

I've not used it yet but my initial impressions are all positive. Glass-wise it's as clear as anything I own at present through the majority of the lens and just a tad soft around the extreme edges.

I had read adjustments were slightly mushy, which I now take to mean less than crisp rather than indistinguishable. I find them distinct, though it is a thud, thud, thud rather than ting, ting, ting. If tracking is as good I'll definitely consider ordering more.

 

[cdb1]

For me they are about the best bang for your buck scope you can get, at least at the price Cameraland sells them for.

 

[Skylerbone]

Yep, Doug hooked me up and even upgraded the rings I ordered when they mistakenly showed the ordered ones in stock. That alone was a $30 bump on top of a phenomenal deal.

I sourced the VX 2 from a site that is new to me but a longtime RFC member vouched for them so I'll report back. BTW $307.27 was the total with free ground shipping making it $42.72 cheaper than the E.F.R. with CDS I was coveting. To me, even with the 4X low magnification made it a no-brainer.

 

[chicharrones]

Thanks for all the pics, Skylerbone.

 

[cdb1]

I always buy from Cameraland if they have what I'm looking for, even if it's a few dollars more. The service they give is phenomenal and that isn't an exaggeration.

I'd like to know the name of the dealer where you got the VX-2 Skylerbone.

 

[Skylerbone]

I always buy from Cameraland if they have what I'm looking for, even if it's a few dollars more. The service they give is phenomenal and that isn't an exaggeration.

I'd like to know the name of the dealer where you got the VX-2 Skylerbone.

They are a great bunch indeed!

I am hesitant to mention the name of the site because the full transaction is not complete. My level of trepidation is probably higher than the average person's though I've yet to fall victim to internet scams. With that asterisk inserted, opticsagent.com is where I placed my order.

The 3-9 EFRs were discounted as well but I did find merit in more magnification for a range queen and the 4-12 was still cheaper.