oneounceload
member
I believe FL was one of, if not the first, in that regard..........also gotta love that Castle Doctrine being applied not only to your home or motel room, but your car as well
which states are the best and least restrictive for gun ownership?
- Thread starter rod5591
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I believe FL was one of, if not the first, in that regard..........also gotta love that Castle Doctrine being applied not only to your home or motel room, but your car as well
Jericho 941
Member
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- 15
I cannot believe we listed:
Florida
Texas
Idaho
Utah
Arizona
New mexico
Pennsyvania
Alaska
Kentucky
Arkansas
Connecticut
South Carolina
Virginia
Vermont
Montana
Alabama
Nevada
Georgia
Missouri
Michigan
Colorado
Before Oklahoma...
Besides the ease of acquiring a gun, CCW and silencers in this great state we have some of the largest gun shows in America and the Oklahoma Self Defense Act. (www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2010.pdf)
There is even legislation in the works to allow you to hunt game with a silencer, and you can already hunt feral pigs and predatory mammals (like wolves and coyotes) with them. I have dropped many hogs with a silenced .308.
You can shoot an intruder in your home and they let you go back to bed. As the previous poster pointed out they even extend that right to defending yourself in your vehicle. What is the point of owning and carrying if you end up going to prison for defending yourself?
Plus Tulsa and OKC are pretty modern big cities with good jobs and excellent grub. Great place to live and work, and Tulsa has a place called Red Castle which is CMP affiliated and has a 1000 yard range for high powered rifles.
Florida
Texas
Idaho
Utah
Arizona
New mexico
Pennsyvania
Alaska
Kentucky
Arkansas
Connecticut
South Carolina
Virginia
Vermont
Montana
Alabama
Nevada
Georgia
Missouri
Michigan
Colorado
Before Oklahoma...
Besides the ease of acquiring a gun, CCW and silencers in this great state we have some of the largest gun shows in America and the Oklahoma Self Defense Act. (www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2010.pdf)
There is even legislation in the works to allow you to hunt game with a silencer, and you can already hunt feral pigs and predatory mammals (like wolves and coyotes) with them. I have dropped many hogs with a silenced .308.
You can shoot an intruder in your home and they let you go back to bed. As the previous poster pointed out they even extend that right to defending yourself in your vehicle. What is the point of owning and carrying if you end up going to prison for defending yourself?
Plus Tulsa and OKC are pretty modern big cities with good jobs and excellent grub. Great place to live and work, and Tulsa has a place called Red Castle which is CMP affiliated and has a 1000 yard range for high powered rifles.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Good grief I wish people would quit saying that. There is SO MUCH more to understanding how "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand Your Ground" laws work, and how a legal self-defense case works that simplifying it that way is really a bad idea.
In no state do you go to prison for defending yourself if you make a successful argument for the neccessity of your violent act in self-defense. In no state are you immediately off the hook for shooting someone because you felt you were justified in doing so. The "Castle Doctrine" laws aid the defender by allowing certain presuppositions in their favor, thus lowering the threshold of proof they must present in explaining why it was necessary to take a life.
And it is utterly unreasonable to assume that if you shoot someone -- even in your house -- they'll "let you go back to bed." There's going to be an investigation. You are probably going to spend some time in custody. Your firearm will almost certainly be taken into custody as evidence. And you're probably going to need a lawyer.
No shoot is a "Good Shoot" until the District Attorney, a Grand Jury, or a fair and impartial jury in front of a judge says it is. Even in "Castle Doctrine" states.
Bobson
Member
Jericho, are you saying that in most states, if I were to shoot someone trying to carjack me at gunpoint, I would go to prison?
I find that pretty unlikely. Sure, maybe it can happen, maybe it even has happened. But that's gotta be about as common as a gun collector being content with what he has.
Also, it might be easy to get a CCW license in OK, but in AZ and AK, you don't need one.
I find that pretty unlikely. Sure, maybe it can happen, maybe it even has happened. But that's gotta be about as common as a gun collector being content with what he has.
Also, it might be easy to get a CCW license in OK, but in AZ and AK, you don't need one.
armoredman
Member
Sam, a list of DON'Ts? Hmmm, like this?
In Arizona we DON'T require a permit to carry openly or concealed, or to purchase, or to own a firearm. We DON'T have an AWB, waiting period, magazine limit ban, ammunition type ban, FOID, registration, licensing, requirement to conduct private purchases at an FFL, inheritance ban. We DO have Castle Doctrine, Shall Issue permit with very easy terms just in case you want one, reciprocity with several states, recognize permits from darn near anywhere, allow lawful possession of NFA items, and have no issue with you CARRYING your lawfully possessed NFA items. Didja want to use that SMZ rig for your MAC? You can do that here, as long as you have your tax stamp.
We also have safe storage required at government buildings, and allow CCW PERMIT HOLDERS, (good reason to still have one), to carry in places that serve open alcohol that are not posted, as long as the permittee doesn't consume alcohol.
There's more, but I can't remember it all. Oh, yeah, lots of ranges, a very nice 300 yard free public well maintained range just a few minutes from me.
In Arizona we DON'T require a permit to carry openly or concealed, or to purchase, or to own a firearm. We DON'T have an AWB, waiting period, magazine limit ban, ammunition type ban, FOID, registration, licensing, requirement to conduct private purchases at an FFL, inheritance ban. We DO have Castle Doctrine, Shall Issue permit with very easy terms just in case you want one, reciprocity with several states, recognize permits from darn near anywhere, allow lawful possession of NFA items, and have no issue with you CARRYING your lawfully possessed NFA items. Didja want to use that SMZ rig for your MAC? You can do that here, as long as you have your tax stamp.
We also have safe storage required at government buildings, and allow CCW PERMIT HOLDERS, (good reason to still have one), to carry in places that serve open alcohol that are not posted, as long as the permittee doesn't consume alcohol.
There's more, but I can't remember it all. Oh, yeah, lots of ranges, a very nice 300 yard free public well maintained range just a few minutes from me.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
This a common flaw in understanding how self-defense cases work.
Shooting someone is illegal. It's Assault with a Deadly Weapon. Killing someone is illegal. It's generally manslaughter or murder.
State laws offer an exception, called an "Affirmative Defense," that CAN set aside the guilt for that crime. What many folks don't really understand is that this works the opposite way from most criminal defense cases.
You are NOT "innocent until proven guilty." In fact, you start out by saying, "I did it!" You admit breaking the law -- and then you offer your affirmative defense of "self-defense." "I did it, and this is why..."
If your claim of necessity is believable -- in other words, if you can establish that a reasonable person in your situation would have felt there was no other way to prevent your own (or another's) death or grievous injury (or a very short list of other serious felonies like arson of an occupied building), and the evidence supports what you say, then the D/A, or a jury is allowed by the law to excuse your crime.
Some states or cities have a bad reputation for prosecutors being extremely unlikely to "no bill" a defensive shooting. They may have a policy or habit of putting every shooting through a jury trial and trying to fight the self-defense claim. Some areas have populations that seem to provide juries which are less likely to believe self defense claims, or at least those from certain citizens. (Race? Class? Status? Who knows?)
These "castle doctrine" or "stand your ground" laws help the defender -- to a point -- by spelling out certain presuppositions the state is allowed or instructed to make, if the evidence supports them, to reduce the weight of evidence a defender must provide to establish the necessity of his act.
For example, the law may say, "If a person is found to be entering an occupied residence with force, their motive to enact violence upon the occupants may be assumed..." or words to that effect. Thus giving a resident a bit of the benefit of the doubt that, IF someone is forcing their way into their home, the fact that the resident saw a weapon and/or heard a personal, voiced threat may not have to be part of the evidence required to establish their need to act. The law in that case would be saying, "If we establish the violent entry, (and possibly other details), then we can assume the threat existed."
Some may say something along the lines of, "If a person is presented with a threat of force, while they are in a location where their presence is not a violation of law, they shall have no duty to retreat from that place before using force or deadly force to resist assault or death..." In other words, if you're presenting a defense of "self-defense" regarding a shooting that happened on the street, and you can prove that a reasonable person would have felt they were about to be killed or seriously hurt, you may not also have to prove that you tried to run away before you shot.
You can shoot someone under circumstances you absolutely believe to be necessary -- and if a DA or jury doesn't accept your defense, you will go to jail. That could happen anywhere. Know your laws (best to spend time with an attorney who specializes in self-defense cases -- or take a law-based self-defense class), know exactly what you should say (as well as what you shouldn't) when the police arrive on scene, and understand that shooting someone under any conditions is the second worst thing that could happen to you.
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Bobson
Member
Which range is that? I live about ten mins from Ben Avery. It's awesome, but it costs $7 to shoot. Not bad at all.Oh, yeah, lots of ranges, a very nice 300 yard free public well maintained range just a few minutes from me.
Bobson
Member
That's a sobering thought. Good to be aware of it though. Thanks, Sam.
wow6599
Member
We here in the "Show-Me State" got 4 points out of 100 from the Brady's.
I just know we can do better.......I want a zero!
I just know we can do better.......I want a zero!
pmec
Member
Sam1911 pretty much said it right about PA. I have a CCW in NY state and wanted one for PA because my daughter and family moved to PA. Sent in an application, a copy of my permit, and the fee, and now I'm good to go (thanks for the info, Sam). Visited PA last month, did some target shooting with my son-in-law in their back yard, and visited a local gun club near their home. I met some great folks.
Yup, 2 thumbs up for PA!
Yup, 2 thumbs up for PA!
Texas gun laws, especially in relation to handgun carry, are over rated.
CHL is far too expensive.
Training required (also costs money)
Open carry illegal
Off limits locations list is longer than a lot of other states
Use of force laws are good. Can have pistol in car without license. No abnormal prohibitions on ownership. Definitely a lot of positives, but quite a few states are considerably better
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, that's what I was talking about back in post 36. We've got a few issues that need fixing.
Sure. But of course, we have the state law that prohibits private transfers of handguns, and the PSP's "we swear to Goooawd it isn't a registry", and there's some oddness about carrying long-guns in cars, and schools are (sort-of, maybe) off-limits (except for "lawful purposes"), but mostly it's very good.
Any place that is shall-issue, no duty-to-notify, Title II friendly, AWB-less, and has no problem whatsoever with you tipping back a pint of ale in a bar while carrying really can't be all that bad.
mortablunt
Member
Virginia, Arizona, Kansas, and Vermont are the best states.
In Virginia, I don't need a permit to Open Carry. There are no "Assault Weapons" laws, or anything else like that. We have a huge gunshow that comes to the metro area about 6 times a year.
In Virginia, I don't need a permit to Open Carry. There are no "Assault Weapons" laws, or anything else like that. We have a huge gunshow that comes to the metro area about 6 times a year.
Pocket Rocket
Member
Just reviewed Brady's rules of scoring and noticed the demerits...if Alaska and/or Arizona can get campus restrictions removed they'll be in the negatives.
MyGreenGuns
Member
^The bad guys LOVE the anti's!
^I'm not wealthy, I worry the bad guy's family will have a better lawyer.
^I laughed when I read this (wording seems funny). A previous employer put up a "NO GUNS ON PREMISIS" sign, 8 of 13 cars parked across the street from then on out.
Washington state has a star
. But 100 possible minus 17 (brady score) = B- as far as gun freedoms!
mljdeckard
Member
I'll second the Brady list. Utah deserves the dead last status. KenW, you are incorrect. Private property owners CANNOT ban guns. They can ban people. If they ask you to leave, and you refuse, and are forced to leave, you are guilty of TRESPASSING, not a gun crime. In Utah the state has pre-emption. The state legislature decides where you can and cannot carry, not businesses, individuals, or municipalities.
You can carry in schools and universities.
You employer cannot bar you from having a gun in your vehicle at work.
No permit required in your home or vehicle.
Open carry is allowed with a permit anywhere concealed carry is allowed. (Try that in TX.)
No state bans against NFA items.
Concealed or open carry is allowed in state and national parks.
Bars and clubs, no restriction. Carrying limit is same as driving limit, .08.
Pretty much the only time I can't carry is on military posts, court houses, prisons, and post offices. (Also if you are LDS, you can't carry to church.) I haven't visited any mental institutions since a college class many years ago. Ok, if you attend an event like a Jazz game, you will get wanded, but if you are carrying, you will be asked to leave, not arrested.
You can carry in schools and universities.
You employer cannot bar you from having a gun in your vehicle at work.
No permit required in your home or vehicle.
Open carry is allowed with a permit anywhere concealed carry is allowed. (Try that in TX.)
No state bans against NFA items.
Concealed or open carry is allowed in state and national parks.
Bars and clubs, no restriction. Carrying limit is same as driving limit, .08.
Pretty much the only time I can't carry is on military posts, court houses, prisons, and post offices. (Also if you are LDS, you can't carry to church.) I haven't visited any mental institutions since a college class many years ago. Ok, if you attend an event like a Jazz game, you will get wanded, but if you are carrying, you will be asked to leave, not arrested.
azmjs
member
Arizona is Number One
oneounceload
member
So, you are in favor of the government usurping the rights of private property owners? WOW........not exactly what this country was founded on
USAF_Vet
Member
Michigan. Although we scored 25 on the Brady scale, out Castle doctrine/ Stand your ground extends from home, to car, and anywhere I have the legal right to be. We are protected from civil suit if it's determined to be a good shoot.
We've also got open carry. CPL isn't cheap, nor are the classes, but we're a shall issue.
ETA:
This is one of the lame things about Michigan. It might just be company policy though, but when I get my CCW, I'll be parking across the street, gun locked inside.
lizziedog1
Member
Nevada is as bad as Texas. Our gun laws are very restrictive and add to that there are really no places to shoot around here.
mljdeckard
Member
I didn't say I approved or disapproved of it. I said it was the law.
What do you think is better for the rights of citizens and gun owners? A patchwork of laws and regulations that vary every time you enter a business, or a law that is uniform everywhere you go? Private property owners' rights are not restricted by this. They have the right to close their property.
What do you think is better for the rights of citizens and gun owners? A patchwork of laws and regulations that vary every time you enter a business, or a law that is uniform everywhere you go? Private property owners' rights are not restricted by this. They have the right to close their property.
jmresistance
Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 71
I'm proud to say that Indiana scored a 4 out of 100 on the Brady Scorecard. You do need a permit to carry, but they offer a lifetime, which I got last year, so for me it has become a non-issue.
There is a stupid state law banning Short-Barreled Shotguns. If it qualifies as an AOW, it's fine, but not if it's an SBS. The way I understand it, the shotgun has to come from the factory as a pistol grip only to be cut down into an AOW. If it comes with a full stock, however, the shortened version would be considered an SBS. This basically rules out a sawn-off SxS or O/U, both of which are on my wishlist...
There is a stupid state law banning Short-Barreled Shotguns. If it qualifies as an AOW, it's fine, but not if it's an SBS. The way I understand it, the shotgun has to come from the factory as a pistol grip only to be cut down into an AOW. If it comes with a full stock, however, the shortened version would be considered an SBS. This basically rules out a sawn-off SxS or O/U, both of which are on my wishlist...
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