which steel?

[Gifted]

Saw a very appealing set of swords at the BX today. A pair of katana in a double sheath with a shoulder strap. The only problem I saw was that they were made of stainless steel.

I've read through here, and I've seen several threads where stainless was frowned upon because of the brittleness. Other steels have been recommended, especially for use. I'd use these, once the training is had and proficiency aquired, though that might not be very often.

What I've gathered, from stuff here, and other places, is stainless is generally used for display, as it's lower maintenance. Carbon steels or whatever are prefered for actual use, not being as brittle, and therefore able to handle abuse better. The lady at the stand though was quite insistant that 440 stainless(the particular alloy used) was quite useable. Once she said that, it hit the bottom of my limited knowledge, and I figured to ask this here cornucopia of wisdom.

 

[redneck]

"440 stainless" is generic for junk most of the time. 440 stainless steel comes in several different alloys all named with a different letter. 440C, 440A,440B, and 440U. 440A is pretty run of the mill stuff, its used on a lot of low to middle grade knives. Gerber uses it quite a bit, so does Kershaw IIRC.
440C is the best of the bunch, benchmade uses it on some of their mid-grade lineup and its still in fairly wide use by custom knifemakers also (I use it and like it quite a bit for what it is). It offers a good mix of corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge holding at a good price.
440B isn't used much, I think Randall knives may use it because it takes to being forged fairly well. Its not a common steel though and you can bet those swords aren't made with it.
440U is something I've read about now and then but never seen used for anything.
Anyway, the point here is that 440 covers a wide range of steel and if they don't give you the letter to go with it, its probably not any good. A lot of "made in pakistan" knives are marked generically as 440.
You also have to wonder about heat treating. If that wasn't done right it doesn't matter what kind steel was used. This isn't really something you can figure out without buying the knife and using it, but buying from a reputable company will put the odds in your favor. Some company you've never heard of that sells things really cheap is probably cutting corners somewhere.

In my opinion, those swords are wall hangers and nothing more. There really isn't much chance of finding a good sword made of stainless, and if you do its going to be expensive. Stainless steel thats usable for cutting tools is expensive, and heat treating it is complex. To do it on the scale of something like a sword is going to be a lot of work, and cost a lot. You'd be better off looking for something made of known carbon steel, from a known company if you want a serious user. I'm not really into swords specifically so I can't recommend anything unfortunately.

 

[hso]

Sorry to tell you, but they're junk.

 

[Boats]

Actually the only stainless knives I have are Swiss Army Knives by Victorinox. Every other blade I have is carbon steel.

I have Benchmades in D2 and M2.

I have more knives than I can shake a stick at that are made of 1095, the most famous of which are the Ka-Bars I have littered around my house and vehicles.

Then I have my favorites: Bark River Knife & Tool products of varying design all made of A2 carbon steel.

A proper sword should be made out of some properly heat treated carbon steel. It can be shiny because it is polished, but it should have no stainless composition to it.

If not for use in a saltwater environment, stainless is for the lazy, IMO. In fact, I don't particularly buy that stainless is better in extreme environments either. For most of blade history, stainless didn't exist and folks did just fine without it. I only have stainless SAKs because they aren't offered in carbon steels.

 

[Valkman]

Alot of custom makers use stainless - just because a knife is stainless doesn't mean it's no good but alot of no good knives are made of stainless.

Ever check out that funky channel that has those guys selling knives late at night? Last deal I saw was 200 knives, including a huge sword, for $219. Now you KNOW that's some junk there!

I'm about to start working with 440C and ATS34, and believe me, they won't be junk. I hope.

 

[Jalexander]

Some of the stainless steels aren't bad, in the proper application. I have a Cold Steel Voyager that I'm pretty fond of, but generally speaking carbon steels are better for swords.
If you want an inexpensive katana that's built h*ll for stout, check out the Himalayan Imports website. Last I checked, they had some well made swords. The owner passed away recently, but I imagine they're still in business.

James

 

[Jeff]

Actually, Gifted, stainless steels are typically softer than carbon steels and will be tougher in a resiliency sense. The harder the steel, the more prone it is to brittleness.

 

[redneck]

That not necessarily true. Hardness is only one part of the equation. You can have two different steels at the same rockwell hardness, but they will show very different performance when it comes to flexibility and impact strength.
Stainless like S90V is actually used at higher hardness than a lot of carbon steels. It holds an edge as well as just about anything, but will chip alot easier, and won't flex much at all. So even though it makes a great knife, its horrible for a sword.
S7 is a shock resistant tool steel. Impact resistance is great, but edge holding won't be as good as S90V.
Carbon steels like 5160, and 1050-1095, give a good mix of flexibility, toughness, and edge holding at a spring temper. Other steels you might get one characteristic or another, but you have to heat treat them different ways for each one.

 

[FunGunner]

I like 52100 for my knives and 5160 or 1070 for swords. Although, the quality of the creation process and heat treat are more important to me than which quality steel is used.