Which would be the better handgun for the military?

[Doug.38PR]

1911 A1 .45 ACP (Colt, Springfield Armory, S&W, et al) (TRADITIONAL)
1911 A1 High Capacity GI .45 ACP (Springfield Armory)
1911 A1 10mm
XD .45 ACP (Springfield Armory)
XD .40 S&W '' "
XD .357 " "
Kahr .45 ACP
Sig Saur .45 ACP
Sig Saur .40 S&W
Glock .45 GAP
Glock .40 S&W
Glock .357
Glock 10mm
Berretta .40 S&W
Berretta 9mm (CURRENT)

EDIT: I went ahead and voted for the 1911 A1. I was mixed between that and the High Capacity SA 1911 A1, but some have commented that the extra ammo would add too much weight to the gun (this would be a problem with any high capacity gun as I see it). When it comes right down to it, as far as a pistol goes, you probably won't need a bunch of shots (that's what the rifle is for) but if you do, just whip out a 10-15 round single stack magazine. My vote would be for one of the two 1911 A1 .45 guns, but if I had to pick between the two, I would go for the traditional single stack

 

[Clipper]

None of the above...

...Taurus 24/7...

 

[possum]

If it was up to me it would be an xd in any caliber but i choose .45acp!

 

[bestseller92]

I'm not voting because the one I think is best isn't on there. I think the stainless Ruger P90 would be a superb choice for a military sidearm. It'll last forever, it's accurate, totally reliable, and it's not that expensive, compared to some others. Plus, it's a .45 ACP.

 

[HorseSoldier]

No 9mm's hmmm? Seems like a rather pronounced omission. There are those who complain about lethality, but a military combat handgun is one of the few handguns likely to be used in a scenario where you might actually need 15-18 rounds in the gun before a mag change. I don't see any real logic in having ball .357 Sig listed but not 9mm . . .

Also, no HKs? No CZs? Walther P-99 (with AS trigger set up, probably the best polymer pistol trigger out there, in my opinion)?

 

[Josh Aston]

S&W MP9

 

[Autolycus]

I chose the Sig 220 due to my belief that the new Sig 220 Combat would be a great choice. I would have chosen an HK had they been on the list as they are the best choice in my opinion.

 

[Doug.38PR]

No 9mm's hmmm? Seems like a rather pronounced omission. There are those who complain about lethality, but a military combat handgun is one of the few handguns likely to be used in a scenario where you might actually need 15-18 rounds in the gun before a mag change. I don't see any real logic in having ball .357 Sig listed but not 9mm . . .

Also, no HKs? No CZs? Walther P-99 (with AS trigger set up, probably the best polymer pistol trigger out there, in my opinion)?

I put the 9mm Berretta in there (which is what they currently use). Actually I had 9mm for all the other brands listed too, but I had to shave them off because the poll would only allow 16 choices. This is also why some of the other brands people are asking about (Walther P99, HK, etc.) are not in there Sorry y'all

 

[aspen1964]

I can't vouch for the military..but if I had to choose only one centerfire automatic to own..it would be a Colt Gov't(1911) 45 and nothing else...anything else to me is a substitute..

 

[MT GUNNY]

S&W 1911 is what id would like to have in combat.

If not that something US made .45cal 8 or more rounds reliable stainless or pastic (M&P.45would be cool)

 

[MICHAEL T]

Kel P-11 Cheap enough all members of military could carry one . Be required to carry on and off duty. Military ID your CCW. when off post.
Miss use weapon and long long time in Fed. hotel

 

[10-Ring]

The military will establish selection parameters when the time is right. Who knows what they'll look for when it's time. But for this time, I'd go w/ a poly gun (for durability), DA/SA w/ external safety or LEM (for safety), 45 acp (for effectiveness) and HK.
So, I'd go w/ HK USP 45 or the new HK45

 

[hnk45acp]

HK45



HK45
comes in full size & compact, ambi controls, 10 rounds of 45, threaded barrel, interchangable backstraps, 9 different variants. It's all things to all people

 

[heypete]

I personally voted for the XD-45 for the following reasons:
* Large capacity magazine filled with .45 ACP
* Reasonably sized pistol (at least the 4" Service model is)
* Durable
* Reliable
* Same metal treatment as Glock for longevity and corrosion resistance
* Field strips easily
* Cleans easily
* Handles dirt, grime, dust, etc. well
* Grips fit a wide range of people
* Grip safety reduces chance of NDs while still allowing for the pistol to be put into action immediately without needing to sweep off manual safeties
* Loaded chamber indicator and cocked striker indicator would similarly assist with ND-reduction
* Stainless steel magazines
* Ambi mag release

The only quality of the XD-45 that would likely make it not is that it's single action only. Military primers can be hard sometimes, and it would be nice having a trigger that will drop back to DA if the regular SA strike fails (i.e. if the slide came back and re-cocked the striker, it'd remain SA. If the trigger is pulled, striker falls, round fails to go off, and trigger is pulled again it'd do DA). Sometimes those rounds just need a second hit.

Otherwise, it makes a fine pistol. That, and the Croatian military's already using it, even without the SA/DA functionality. I think the US Military would require that the military XDs, if there ever will be such a thing, be made in the US.

 

[aspen1964]

gun looks like something that should hanging on your tool peg board...

 

[Nathan Williams]

No Glock 21............ . High capacity .45, to hell and back reliability, good price, easy to strip, easy to clean, runs better dirty than most do clean, lightweight, perfectly acceptable accuracy for a combat pistol, never rust, and a company that is already used to dealing with large scale U.S Government orders.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I did not vote

I think the military has a lot more going for it then my thoughts. But I do believe there are better hand guns out there than one that is almost 100 years old.
Contrary to what many say and mention I don't see that many out on the
civilian ranges, not enough bullet capacity and for most it is not user friendly.

I do like the newer and improved but they still have there short comings on logistics and amount of ammo you can carry. It's nice in 9 mm you can carry twice the number for the same amount of weight. 357 Sig is a good round. Feeds good, in the dark they are easy to be able to tell which is the front and rear of the round. Since it is a bottle neck.

HQ

 

[heypete]

No Glock 21............ . High capacity .45, to hell and back reliability, good price, easy to strip, easy to clean, runs better dirty than most do clean, lightweight, perfectly acceptable accuracy for a combat pistol, never rust, and a company that is already used to dealing with large scale U.S Government orders.

As a Glock person myself, here's my thoughts on it as a US military weapon (based on what I know about their criteria):
* No external safety (not even a grip safety like the XD) is just asking for NDs. These are soldiers who'll be handling these guns. Murphy's law and all that.
* Grips are really large. Even me, who has large hands, has difficulty with the pistol.
* Somehow I doubt Glock would be willing to build a plant here in the US when their Austrian one works just fine.

Don't get me wrong -- I really like Glock pistols. But I just don't think the G21 would be appropriate for US military uses.

Once I'm elected Ruler of the Universe, I'd decree that the soldiers could pick their pistols based on a list of "approved pistols" like many police departments do. Of course, I'd also drive a Ferrari, own a big ranch, and lose 25 pounds. Anyone want to vote me RotU anytime soon?

 

[slicknickns]

You know you could lose that 25 pounds if you just went out jogging.

 

[heypete]

You know you could lose that 25 pounds if you just went out jogging.

I've been commuting by bicycle 6 miles each day since mid-August. It seems to be helping out a bit.

Tucson gets too hot to run.

 

[slicknickns]

Good for you. Glad you enjoy it.

You make a good point, I personally think that military personal should be able to carry their own personal sidearms in combat. Didn't militaries in the 30's and 40's do that. I know a lot of Japanese officers bought Brownings back then.

 

[Autolycus]

From what I hear the old school military seems a lot better than the new one. I think they should be given a list of approved weapons and told to go from there. Maybe stick with one universal caliber. I would suggest a .40 S&W myself.

 

[Manedwolf]

As to the XD...it's a fine civilian and police sidearm, but Croatia is only about fifteen years old, and still has, I believe, SIX major political parties and a lot of political scuffling...and discontent of the populace with it. Some want to join the EU, some don't, etc, etc...and there's still a bit of leftover Serbian aggression in some parts.

It's certainly growing into a decent democracy, but would you REALLY want to entrust the supply line and manufacturing of the military's main sidearm to a place where it could be disrupted if something happened politically?

Italy is a good, stable supplier. So is Brazil. The 24/7 might not be a bad choice, I agree, if the ergonomic grip is durable.

Also, I say .45 ACP or 9mm over anything else simply for the reason that if you're stuck in the middle of nowhere and there's no resupply coming soon, you'll want to scrounge what you can shoot. There's stocks of 45 and 9mm everywhere, since WWII.

That said, I also think the military could use a decent secondary small backup pistol meant ONLY for vehicle or barrier penetration or armor-wearing attackers, since that's one of the surprises they seem to keep facing in their current roles. Something new with the penetration of 7.62x25 Tok. Maybe something related to the FN fiveseven? Or even a rework of the old gyro jet concept? And yes, I know, a .223 pistol will do that, but I mean something small enough to tuck into a molle vest.

 

[armoredman]

CZ SP01, if we stick to the NATO standard of 9mm. If we swicth calibers, then we ask CZ to redesign the SP01 in whatever they choose!

I agree the FiveseveN might have some interesting applications for battlefield use.

 

[HorseSoldier]

As to the XD...it's a fine civilian and police sidearm, but Croatia is only about fifteen years old, and still has, I believe, SIX major political parties and a lot of political scuffling...and discontent of the populace with it. Some want to join the EU, some don't, etc, etc...and there's still a bit of leftover Serbian aggression in some parts.

Point taken, but, hell, I wouldn't mind if we had six major political parties here in the US just to break up the usual Dem vs Repub logjam and such . . .

It's certainly growing into a decent democracy, but would you REALLY want to entrust the supply line and manufacturing of the military's main sidearm to a place where it could be disrupted if something happened politically?

US law would require manufacture to take place here in the US for a military contract, so we would not be at the whim of an unstable democracy and such (supplies of the M9 have never been a problem and Italy is not exactly the stablest democracy in Europe itself . . . no dictators hopping up and all, but their governments tend to come and go with surprising speed . . .)

No Glock 21............ . High capacity .45, to hell and back reliability, good price, easy to strip, easy to clean, runs better dirty than most do clean, lightweight, perfectly acceptable accuracy for a combat pistol, never rust, and a company that is already used to dealing with large scale U.S Government orders.

Would need an external safety for the US military, which is apparently not a big deal as Glock has offered external safety models for contract consideration before (not won with them, AFAIK), and was planning to slap one on the G-21 they were going to submit for the USASOC trials.

Bigger problem with the G-21 is that it's simply too big for a military issue handgun. The grip and ergonomics have to work for everyone from 5'2" 110 pound female soldiers right up to guys like me with big hands. G-21 with plastic magazines simply can't do it, just too big in the hand (kind of like the HK Mk 23, which was supposed to be the greatest thing ever, as pistols go, and turned out to just be a safe/arms room queen). If they reworked the G-21 to take steel mags (or went with a plastic single stack holding 8 or so rounds) and maybe put an adjustable backstrap on it like most everyone else is doing these days they'd probably have a winner on their hands, though.