While we're talking S+W autos...3913 vs. sig P225

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bofe954

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I've been debating picking up a sig P225 from CDNN, I believe it was 389.00 w/ one mag. Mags seem hard to come by and spendy, and I want 2 or 3. I'd also have to pay shipping and FFL.

Local gunstore has S+W 3913, it was black, (not stainless, not blue, I don't really know the finish). No rail, thank heavens. It had 2 mags and I am assuming I could get more for cheaper than sig mags. It was used but looked new for 350.00. (It's a spendy store).

How do the 2 compare in size, accuracy and trigger?

I read the S+W auto thread. I am really leery of the backwards safety, the 3913 doesn't ahve a hammer spur, I was assuming DA/SA and that the safety was a decocker. I was thinking it would be carried with the safety off, hammer down, and the first round DA. Is this correct?

If anybody had a pic of a P225 and a S+W3913 side by side it would be great.
 
Your carry Idea is how I carry my 3913. I had one and gave it to my daughter, had to have another and found one at a gun show. I think they are the best small 9mm available, at least the best I have tried.
Randall
 
Both are very good guns. The P225 has one of the most comfortable grips that you'll find. I like the profile of the top of the 3913 slide, the rounded cross section is much more conducive to concealed carry holster design. The 3913 benefits greatly from the aftermarket Houge grip.
 
The Cult of the P225 brands you a heathen for even asking this question. Hide your face in shame :)

If it's in good shape, that's a good price on the 225. Now that they appear to be out of production, they'll only get pricier. I've fired the 3913 and I didn't care for it. Grip angle and balance feel...off somehow, and the mag release is in an awkward position. The DA trigger is pretty long, too. It seemed pretty accurate, and I had no feeding problems.

The 225 FEELS much more natural in the hand, and it's got a better balance. Most of us who own one wouldn't part with it for the world. Trigger is way above anything else out there, and as far as reliability, it's a Sig. Very accurate and easily concealable.
 
I prefer the S&W

The bore axis sets lower than the SiG, and I don't seem to feel the muzzle jump. It is just a bit more compact, too. Magazines are somewhat less expensive. Also, the longer magazines for the full size pistols may be used in the compact pistol. Another point - - If one happens upon a stash of Walther P38 or P1 magazines, these can be adapted to the Model 39 series by a few minutes work with a file or a hand grinder. The "depth," from the top of slide to bottom of the trigger guard is a bit less, so, it seems to me, the Smith carries a bit better in an IWB holster.

Now, all the above has to do with my thoughts of the 3913 in comarison to the SiGs in general. That being admitted, I must ask: What IS a 225? I went to the SIGARMS web site and there is nothing about this product, except in accessory section - - they still list 225 magazines. Why is the 225 discontinued?

All of the above is purely subjective, and I'll not argue with anyone who likes the SiG better.

Best,
Johnny
 
The 225 is a single-stack 9mm. Basically, it was the predecessor to the 228. Because of the thinner grip, it's more ergonomic for those of us with smaller hands, although folks with bigger paws like it as well. The 225 is a typical Sig, ie. a heck of a firearm, but on the American market, it was eclipsed by the 15-round "wondernines" back in the '90s. Sig wasn't selling too many stateside, and they had introduced the subcompact P239, so they didn't see a niche for the 225.

It's a shame, since most folks find the 225 to be much more of a natural pointer than the 239, and the 239's just a tad TOO small. It's about the size of a Commander 1911, which makes it a great piece for IWB carry, as opposed to fat hi-cap pistols (though it holds 8+1).

The 225 was the sucessor to the Walther P5 for the German police, where it was dubbed the P6 and used for many years. There's a good page on it here: http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/sig-sauer_p225.htm

If you can find one in good shape for under $450, it's quite a find.
 
Thank you, Erik

Good, clear, understandable explanation. I'd probably have liked a P225 pretty well - - I've always been fond of the old S&W Model 39 and 39-2 single-stack pistols. Just about the same size as a Commander. Light and small enough to readily conceal, but still large enough to be a "Real Pistol." ;)

Best,
Johnny
 
I have both...sort of.... I inherited a 3913 from my step-father (it's the rakish frame design now designated as an LS model) and my girlfriend carries a 225 (made in WEST Germany no less)..or at least did until she fell in love with the Glock 17 and I "had" to buy her one.

They are both phenomenal 9mms. I prefer the S&W overall, and she prefers the SIG.

Trigger - advantage SIG - SA & DA smoother and less creep. S&W can probably be made equal by a competent gunsmith

Sights - S&W has the wonderful Novak site standard. Neither of us has warmed up to SIG's standard offering. Of course this is something easily changed as well if cost isn't an issue.

Safety - SIG hands down. The S&W can be modified to become a decocker, I understand, but this is only an issue if you are dedicated to another system. I am an SA guy (1911's & CZ-75’s are my preferred autos). The Walther style decocker is a proven system so should only be considered a detriment if you are already acclimated to an alternative…IMHO.

The S&W is more compact, more affordable and more American…if that matters to you.

Both are rock solid reliable and have cult followings. You can’t really go wrong with either, so if you can’t shoot them in advance….at least hold them.


Best of luck
 
If the S+W is more compact, I probably don't want the Sig. I went and looked at it again today. I thought it seemed a tiny bit big for what I want it for but it comes with four mags... I am pretty broke at the moment and it may be gone before I can get it.
 
The 3913 is probably the best 9mm that Smith ever made and Sig is probably the best handgun (overall) ever made. Tough choice.

Even though I love my 3913, if I had known how great Sig was when I got it, maybe it wouldn't have come home with me.
 
I love my 3913..never owned or fired the Sig.

The 3913 benefits greatly from the aftermarket Houge grip.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the wood or the rubber Houge grips?...I've been looking at them. Can't decide which one to get.
 
As far as rubber vs wood grips, if you are looking at a carry gun, keep in mind that rubber grips also grip your jacket, your shirt, and every other article of clothing that drapes over the butt, whereas they will slide right off of wood. Rubber grips are great on a home-defense handgun but have their downsides for CCW.

Regarding the 3913 vs SIG P225--I've never shot a SIG, but I can say that my 3913 LadySmith is absolutely fantastic. (The 3913LS is basically a regular 3913 with an angled frame instead of the regular 3913 profile, and a single safety lever instead of an ambi safety for a slimmer profile.) In 2000 to 3000 rounds (guesstimate), I've never had a failure of any sort, except for one round of Wal-Mart value-pack 9mm that apparently didn't have any priming compound in the primer (the firing pin dented the primer to the bottom of the primer cup and the round didn't go off). Accuracy is top-notch; I don't know about intrinsic accuracy but I had opportunity to shoot my 3913LS and a Glock 34 longslide 9mm at the same range session on the same target using the same ammunition, and was just as accurate with the S&W as with the Glock. I've also run a moderate amount of 115-gr Cor-Bon +P's through it and use that as my carry load. Recoil isn't bad at all.

As far as the safety and such, the gun is fully drop-safe with the safety disengaged. I store mine on-safe and carry it off-safe, as it is designed with this in mind. The safety also functions as a decocker (3913 is traditional DA/SA, 3953 is the same gun in DAO). DA pull is quite smooth and SA is excellent. The trigger reset distance is also quite short, if that matters to you. It also has a magazine disconnect safety (gun won't fire without a magazine inserted), if that's a pro or con for you.
 
So, how about a S&W 6906? Same dimensions as the 3913 but a tad wider in the grip to accomodate 12 round mags. KY Imports has a supply of trade in pistols.
 
"Are you referring to the wood or the rubber Houge grips?...I've been looking at them. Can't decide which one to get."

I've got the rubber grips on mine, the checkered wood grips look good. The Houge profile gives the 3913 a much better feel IMHO, and I find the S&W stock grips slippery.
 
In general, I find the ergonomics on S&W semiautos to be lacking. This is, of course, completely subjective. Both guns will be reliable (unless you're unlucky enough to get a lemon). Try them both and buy the one that feels better in your hand. Or, if you can test fire an example of each, buy the one with which you shoot best.

Mike
 
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