Who dislikes/hates the Beretta 92FS/M9?

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I carried a Beretta 96FS (.40 Cal) on patrol.

It fit my hand nicely and I shot very well with it. There were two things I didn't like about it:
  1. The slide mounted hammer drop safety. I much prefer the Taurus PT92 frame mounted safety/decocker.
  2. The machined front sight. A dovedtailed front sight would've facilitated better sights. When I installed tritium night sights I had to send the slide to the sight manufacturer to have the front sight drilled for installation of the tritium lamp assembly.
My 96FS never experienced a stoppage. It was a very reliable pistol.
 
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That was one of the biggest complaints when we switched from the 1911A1 to the M9. My unit didn't get the M9 until late 1992 or early 1993 while stationed in Germany with the 1st Armored Division. Of course engineer battalions are usually some of the last units to get updated equipment. We had to turn our M3A1 "grease guns" at the same time we turned our 1911A1's in.

Don't feel unloved. I reported to my AD unit in February 99, and they had just replaced the Grease Guns with open sighted M4s six months prior. However, the M9s had been on-hand longer.
 
i have to Beretta 92 FS's, one in black, and the other is a SS Inox..in fact, i went this morning with the SS one.

they handle well, shoot well and like my 2 CZ 75B's, are not "snappy" like any of my polymer 9mm's.

i like mine, glad i bought them.

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I never cared for the M9 since it never fit my hands well. I could never shoot the M9 as well as the M1911A1.

Although I shot the M9 better, military regs being what they are, it sucked having to carry in the Condition required. The safety sucked, the grips are huge, DA/SA was merely an annoyance for me, but I saw many struggle with it, usually the 2nd shot for most was an ND.

About the only good thing I could say for it as a service gun is everybody's scores went up, though mine only from 38/40 to 40/40. I think for most the round had more to do with scores increasing than the gun itself.

As a civilian carry gun, it's huge. My Gx4 only holds 2 less rounds and is a lot smaller, though as a OWB CCW some variants it would be a decent choice for those that don't mind the safety.
 
A little love for the 92S.


Heres a little. :)

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00-DboCy8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz9teh7JmYCw6p03M_8E5Q1b
 
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I have extensive experience with those things, and maintained a hate-hate relationship with them during the period I was forced to use them. I have grown to not like DA type handguns in general, while giving what I considered the better guns that share this system of operation their due respect (legacy Sigs like the 226/228 and HK USP variants). I don't like DA either as a shooter or instructor, because I like a consistent trigger for every shot- whether it is the first round out of the holster or the subsequent rounds that will follow in the engagement. They require additional movements to decock after the engagement to re-holster, and the mastery of 2 seperate triggers on the same gun. This is extraneous and potentially dangerous if you forget to de-cock prior to holstering due to stress (like at the end of a gunfight for example).

The M9/92 comes with many of what I consider design flaws. I have repaired many broken locking blocks, and broken a few myself. Despite several redesigns of the part and replacement of the standard slide with the heavier 96 model brigadier slide (but only in SOF units), this problem never stopped. Also, the brigadier slide is shaped slightly different from the standard slide- this means many M9/92 kydex holsters won't work with the brigadier slide.

The only clear advantage of the WW2 P38 style locking block is that it resulted in the pistol having a very soft recoil- but the downside is that limp-wristing the pistol (a common problem for less experienced users and those with smaller hands or less strength) would often result in malfunctions at higher rates than other pistol designs- despite the use of 124 grain "spicy" NATO ammunition. I never saw this until I was tasked with training some support soldiers (many of whom were females-who represent about 19% of the army and 10% of the marines). Unless the user has one of the much newer models, they do not have a light rail, making mounting a light problematic, with varying degrees of success in designs to mount lights (this applies to every M9 in the US army and most others in use everywhere).

Aftermarket grips (esp. rubber ones) are a no-no on this gun- heat or cold can make them flex, which will make them contact the trigger bar, and possibly disconnect the spring inside- making it a paperweight. The only reliable option is to stick bicycle inner tube over stock grips, or stiple a (spare) set of standard grips with something like a soldering iron.

Loss of 1 (or more) grip screw washers will likely result in the magazine being stuck inside the gun. I had to crazy glue these washers into the grips to prevent guys from losing them during deep cleanings- such as when they were packed with the moon dust that gets in everything in afg/iraq and similar environments- and the M9/92 will seriously choke on any significant buildup of foreign matter inside. And crazy glue should never need to be used on a gun, period.

Another frequent issue is the ambi safety/decock levers frequently breaking off the right side of the gun during normal use, right in line with the hole for the roll pin that holds the 2 sides together. Additionally, the safety/decock is in the wrong place (on the slide- if it was frame mounted like a 1911, it would be much easier to access, esp. for users with smaller hands and shorter fingers (like females, typically). The location of the safety/decock often results in it being accidentally activated when clearing a malfunction (which happens fairly often with these guns). When this happens, the shooter will have what we called a dead man's gun mid-engagement.

Slides have been known to fail, with the only consolation being that eventually a mod was made to prevent that slide from exiting the gun and doming the user. Not getting hit in the face with a slide is good, but not having the gun fail is even better.

The internal springs quality also leave a lot to be desired- if these guns are exposed to salt, or just due to age expect them to fail, making your pistol a paperweight again. At least Sig put improved corrosion resistant springs in their pistols. I will say that the user-configurable mag release for lefties was a nice touch- the southpaws seemed to like that feature (11% of the population).

So, those are the reasons that the M9/92 is my least liked service pistol of all time, and I have used more than a few different service pistols. These are actual observations of the pistols being used, and not antecdotes I am parrotting that I read somewhere on some gun forum. All of these issues are annoying in training and very concerning in real world use- much more so than any caliber debate or bullet design conversation. After all, none of that matters if the pistol can't fire for whatever reason. At the very least, it is something else for the user to be concerned about, and does nothing to help a M9 user's confidence in his/her issued pistol- as if military members and LE need something else to worry about.

So, for the M9 fans who love their pistols either due to nostalgia, a love affair with Italian engineering, or aome other reason, I hope you enjoy them and shoot them well, and I hope they never let you down. I was let down numerous times by them and I won't be giving them another chance, just like MRE's, poorly designed boots, and other things I was issued that just plain suck- especially now that I am not forced to use one, and can opt for any handgun I want or even no handgun at all if I choose.
 
Good commentary on real or perceived shortcomings
of the 92FS and M9.

I found postings by former military service members to
be fascinating and informative.
 
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I bought a 92 off an old man at a gun show a few years ago. It fit my hand well, but I honestly couldn't hit the ground with it if I dropped it. I can usually shoot fairly well, but could not hit anything with that gun. I also had it's little brother the model 84, and again, I could not hit anything with it either. My dad had an 84 and 92 when I was a kid, and they both felt really good in my hand, so I had to get one if I had the chance. I was disappointed with both.

With that said, if a good deal on one came up, I would probably give them another try. Maybe I just had a few duds.
 
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Our state guys had the 96 for years before going to the 229 (in 357 sig). I never heard a single one who liked the 229 better. Some didn't care and several preferred the 96. Both are big guns though. And all the troopers i know are 6 ft or close to it.

The only complaints I ever heard were from small women and one marine buddy who liked the 92 but said the ones they saw were shot loose and in poor shape in Iraq.
 
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I bought an M9 recently due to the nostalgic factor. I was issued one in the Marines, over 30 years ago, not too long after their adoption by the Corps.
Although I had no problem qualifying expert every year with an M9, I never really felt like I had it mastered.
As we Marines do a crap ton of dry firing, I always would get a weird muzzle flip to the side when the hammer fell. Fast forward to present day, with new gun, same thing. No other hand gun I own does that. Not even my DA revolvers.
But I think I figured it out. I think it's caused by the long overtravel after the sear release. This issue doesn't seem to effect my ability to put up great scores with the M9, but it is distracting.

As to the decocker/safety, I use it as a decocker only then place it in the fire position. I have no problem with the DA pull on that first round. It's how I train.
Load, decock, holster, draw, fire 1 or two, or three depending on what I'm shooting, decock, holster, start over.
Just trying to build good muscle memory.
I think the M9 is a wonderful pistol. I don't discount what other Vets have experienced in the various sandboxes that they have visited, it's just that in my time, we still wore woodland camo, and didn't worry much about dust and sand.

I must admit though, a 1911 will always be my favorite.
 
I'll start off with saying, I'm not the biggest fan of the Beretta M9/92. And, that's cause I'm a smaller guy with smaller hands.
But, I was able to overcome the long - forward trigger placement and learned to shoot it well. Was issued one for most of my Air Force (Reserve) Security Forces career. Three deployments. Well, 2 and 1/2. Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, and El Salvador.
Carried it, even concealed at times. Now, that's a trick.
I do own both a 92 FS Inox and a 96 Inox.
They work.

The Beretta that I think is most famous for shearing the block is the M1951. At least the surplus models that have been around the "block".
 
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I have grown to not like DA type handguns in general, while giving what I considered the better guns that share this system of operation their due respect

Same here. I have p series rugers, 226, 220, 229, Beretta, usp, old smith's etc etc. Was a Glock hater but ive grown to not care for the da/sa much. I'll never part with them but they aren't my favorites anymore.
 
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Beautiful, reliable, classic pistol.

I just couldn’t get used to that trigger, though. The double-action was a mile long.
 
@FL-NC, my experiences echo yours. I was issued the 1911A1 and M9. After reclassifying to 44E Machinist, I worked hand in hand with unit armorers to fix what they couldn't. I had to fix similar issues as you did.

I was a combat engineer for the first few years I was in and spent most of that time as the squad M60 gunner. They tried issuing me a M9 when I first got to Saudi in 1990. Needless to say I scrounged an old "battle rattle" 1911A1 since I knew it would work 100% in the desert. I will take an old battle rattle 1911 anyway over the M9/Beretta
 
I like Beretta firearms in general, but the M9/92 just doesn't fit in my small paws. I wish they did. Now the vintage Beretta M1934 fits perfectly and I have several M1934/35's for range toys.
 
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The things I dislike about the platform:
The grip is too thick for my medium/small hands.
The safety is hard to reach, and prone to accidental activation during immediate action drills.
The DA trigger took me a lot of time to get comfortable with.

After rejecting the platform for many years after I got out of the military, I've recently come back to it. Here are the things that ameliorated these issues, which is why I have a 92x Centurion in my holster today:
Vertec grip.
G conversion.
Langdon trigger.

 
I don't think I've ever shot a Beretta M9/B92, but my FIL has a Taurus PT92 version. I've found it to be incredibly bulky and ill fitting in my hand. It also has a number of minuses... for me... those being, primarily, the slide mounted safety, and the horrible DA/SA trigger (I don't own a DA/SA semiauto... and probably never will...)

I was actually surprised when the military adopted the M9, I thought they could have done better... to include a 9mm 1911, among other things, but I am looking at that from a shooter's point of view, not necessarily looking for something to fit the lowest common denominator.
 
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The PJs in Afghanistan, that had to practice four times a week, ran out of 92 barrels due to sheared blocks and had to borrow new barrels from the Marines, a bit of inter service consternation, that was.
I know the rescue detachment commander, now retired, so that data is not just a story. It is something that actually happened in a combat area to a deployed active combat group. Got to the point they PJs refused to carry the 92 and relied solely on their M-4s. A half reliable handgun in combat is not reliable at all.
...
This seems a bit off to me, perhaps your friend with the PJs is misremembering things. I worked pretty closely with SF teams during my trips to Afghanistan, and they didn't "practice" that often. Four times a week practicing would mean only three times a week "working." It feels like a huge waste of time to practice that much with the back-up weapon, especially for a role where using a pistol is one of the least important skills on their toolbox.
 
I had wanted a Beretta for many years and due to the state I lived in; there was too many hoops to jump through.
I moved to a friendly state and bought a 92x RDO. It shoots well for me. I put 200 rounds so far. I was not sure I should have bought the 92FS.
 
When I started this thread, I specifically narrowed it to the 92FS/M9. Some negative comments do have merit, especially regarding trigger weights and grip widths.

Beretta seems wedded to the concept that they are military/police firearms and require the heaviest, most practical spring combinations.

But time has shown that modifications can be made without sacrificing reliability. Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat and Ernest Langdon of Langdon Technologies have shown the way.

As a result the Beretta 92 has been greatly upgraded in the X, RDO, GTS models.The Vertec grip seems to have answered well the criticism of a too-fat grip.

For instance, the GTS models have DA trigger weights of around 7 to 8 pounds and SA slightly below 4 pounds. The GTSes also have a decocker-only on the frame. I still prefer the older slide mounted decocker-only feature.

Poster #71 Psyopspec seems to be a newly minted fan of the Beretta efforts after being a critic for example. Others have also cited the newer efforts.

I wish to thank one and all who have posted no matter what views were stated. So far it's been fun and I think educational.
 
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