Who do you suport in this situation?

[Eric F]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=366852

Chesapeake Pd or Fredericks
Based on information available today.

There is a bunch of debate on the other thread so I just want to see votes no debates

 

[Wheeler44]

I'm on the side of "Right"; now you go figure that out.

 

[TexasRifleman]

As with most things it's a perception problem.

To use the self defense technique you have to be "squeaky clean".

He wasn't and he's gonna pay the price it appears. The juries' perception of him will be that the warrant was valid since they found drugs, therefore he's a criminal. The fact that it's a small amount of drugs won't matter.

He's toast. No knocks are bad. So, I'm on both sides and neither side all at the same time.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The whole War on Drugs is increasingly expensive and this only represents one more tragic waste of life.

If the cops hadn't been breaking down a dude's door for something as stupid as drug possession, an officer would be able to return to his family and a spot in jail would have been preserved for someone who actually deserves it.

If they announced, the guy will fry. He'll probably fry anyways. But IMO the cops had no right to be there in the first place.

 

[Rachen]

I am on the side of RIGHT too.

Try to figure what it is as well.

HINT: It is colored purple on the poll.

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No-knock warrants are CIVIL RIGHTS ABUSES, and I hope all JBT-wannabes learn something new from this "incident".

 

[RP88]

I'm on Frederick's, but that may or may not change. I'm against the no-knock as it is, and the details of the situation make it sound very discomforting. Alot of civil rights seem to have been violated. Buuuut....

 

[deadhawg]

Everything I have seen on this case leads me to think that is was a monumental screw-up on all sides. A police raid based on faulty information, a man who may have thought he was protecting himself from robbers, a small amount of "soft" drugs found. Damn sad a police officer died as a result, and a man who's only crime may have been the casual use of an arguably harmless, or at least no more harmful than that most widely used drug, alcohol, who will likely be crucified by the police and courts. A lose-lose situation.

Ron

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Well, it is very tragic that a police officer had to die doing his job, but I don't think there is any need to lock up an innocent guy protecting his home either.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Definately on Fredericks side.So the guy had a little reefer, big whoop, who don't. A few years ago,( OK,decades) it coulda been me.....or you. The cops had no buisness executing a no-knock warrant in that case, and their statements aftarwards don't gibe with the evidence or simple logic. But yeah, he'll likely get fried.

 

[romma]

They are going to try to stick it to this guy either way.

The dept doesn't want to admit fault, so they will probably throw anything and everything at him to justify this mess...

I don't think he knew he was shooting at cops. If he did, I don't think he would have surrendered and come marching out at any point with his hands up.

On a side note, it sucks to think that your right to self-defense ends completely because you have an illegal substance like marijuana in your home.

The logic to me that because he had marijuana, shooting someone while in possession , makes him a Criminal Shooter is absurd...

 

[CBS220]

had a little reefer, big whoop, who don't.

The vast majority of people, perhaps?

Not that it was an excuse to bust down his door, but possession is illegal, and that would be enough for an arrest. Although this could have gone down in a much better fashion.

 

[MIL-DOT]

First off, "who don't" is just a figure of speech. And i know pot is illegal, so are a lot of things going on every second of every day, and they don't result in gestapo raids.

 

[CBS220]

First off, "who don't" is just a figure of speech. And i know pot is illegal, so are a lot of things going on every second of every day, and they don't result in gestapo raids.

Which is beside the point.

I'm not condoning the outrageous use of force in this incident. With any suspect, and drug users and/or the deranged in particular, it is always prudent to have force as a standby. How much force is infinitely debatable.

In this case it would have almost certainly been unnecessary. However, the man was quite lucky the cops didn't kill him right there! He would certainly have not been the first to die in such a way.

I would be interested to hear if firsthand from one of the cops. I know from personal experience that in many cases more than a few of the facts go unreported... something gun owners regularly bemoan with regards to gun rights issues.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

On a side note, it sucks to think that your right to self-defense ends completely because you have an illegal substance like marijuana in your home

um, isn't this specifically mentioned on the federal form you are required to fill out when you purchase a firearm?
"are you a user of illegal narcotics including marijuana?"
so not only are you breaking the law regarding pot, but then lying about it on a federal form, and thusly in possession of an illegal firearm because it was obtained on a false premise....yeah thats EXACTLY the sort of person i was to have a gun.
im not saying i have never tried pot, but that is the behavior i would expect from a 17 year old. i certainly hope by the time you are purchasing deadly weapons (the State's wording not mine) you will grow up a little and realize there is more to life than trying to get stoned.

 

[Sindawe]

I wonder who here does not have in their home items that can be assembled together to look REALY bad for the resident? A couple of old flasks I keep as momentos of a past job, some tubing from a beer brewing kit and my old organic chem texts = METH LAB!!!

And doG forbid you do your own plumbing & reloading...

 

[give]

guess it really depends on if they really yelled that they were police

 

[doc2rn]

You try to remain impartial, but your beliefs will color views of what is and what should be.
Pay attention to just the facts.
In this case I lean towards Fred.

 

[Smith]

How do you compromise an announced raid? They knocked to let him know they were there, then claimed that the raid had been compromised because he was aware of their presence? I don't get it.

 

[packnrat]

in the dark how does one really know it is the police??

how many times a year do we here about fake police officers???...

they are fake...right???......





.

 

[brighamr]

fredericks, for obvious reasons (hint: read my sig)

 

[C96]

It was NOT a no knock warrant service, it was a knock and announce, which they did. The guy inside decided the proper response was to shoot through the door.

Bad situation, bad choices. Blindly shooting through your door during a warrant service is often considered poor form.

 

[cpttango30]

Did they really need to break down doors to get some one for a misdomenor?

I believe that neither was right. The guy new something was up and he was going to jail. He then made the choice to shoot blindly threw the door killing a police officer.

I doubt he will get off. If they did knock and announce then it is soley the fault of the moron that shoot blindly threw a door.

I think many police agencies are using the no knock too much. Yet, that does not authorize anyone to shoot threw the door. What if a kid had been riding his bike down the street and ended up with the bullet in him?

Just poor operations on both ends as far as I can see.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

C96 wrote:

It was NOT a no knock warrant service, it was a knock and announce, which they did. The guy inside decided the proper response was to shoot through the door.

I don't think we know what happened yet. Read the following:

Roberts, who heard a dog barking inside the house, said police knocked and announced themselves. Roberts said he personally "knocked and announced," four times in intervals of three to four seconds, yelling each time: "Chesapeake police! Search warrant! Open the door!" He said other officers announced themselves as well.

"You have these officers beating on the door, announcing their presence for a period of time," said Paul Ebert, a special prosecutor brought in from Northern Virginia to handle the case. "Not once, but for a period of five times."

At some point, police began to yell "eight ball," a code meaning the raid had been compromised and that the individual inside the house knew of the raid, Roberts said.http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/murd...oes-grand-jury

Does it really sound like they announced themselves, if that string of events is what transpired? Did they really feel the need to yell that the person realized that there was a raid going on, if they had been "beating on the door," and announcing themselves "not once, but for a period [sic] of five times?"

-Sans Authoritas

 

[C96]

Well Sans, ASSUMING that the Roberts that was quoted in both cases first states that knocked and announced several times, then he seems to state that the raid was compromised.

Assuming that he was quoted correctly in both cases and that what he says is true I would believe that they did knock and announce before things went belly up.

I know that line of thinking is not popular with some, but that's the way it looks to me.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Things were already belly up by the time they rolled up to a pothead's house to kick his door in.

-Sans Authoritas