Who zeros their AR15s at 25 yards?

[TeamPrecisionIT]

A couple of friends at work told me it is a good zero due to it being less than a half inch off at 200 yards. Is this a good idea? I have mine zero'd at 100 yards right now and have been thinking of maybe following their advice just for the fun of it, I mean who needs another 'reason' to go shoot, right? But I want to make sure I am not setting myself up for failure at the next 3-Gun match I go to due to having such a short range zero.

Damian

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

As I recall the POI with 5.56 with a normal AR 15 is the same at 25 yards as it is at 100 yards.

 

[ShaiVong]

Sounds similar to this, it's what I use.

http://www.fsguns.com/ibsz.html

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

I am using a 14.5" chrome-lined barrel with PFH stoked with 75gr Hornday BTHP behind 24.5gr of RL15. Avg velocity is 2780fps out of it. According to the Nikon Spot On calculator, it should have a true zero of 230 yards if its battle zero'd at 25 (I think I am using that terminology correct). I'm not sure if there's any truth to that, just wanted to add it.

Damian

 

[taliv]

zero at 200 yrds and you'll be very close at 50.

 

[M1key]

Zero at 50 yrds, dead on at 200.


M

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

Shooting at 200 yards is quite the adventure for me at the moment, so it isn't really possible. Shooting 100 yards and inwards though is readily feasible so I am trying to figure out what would be a good zero for those times when I have to shoot a stage that involves shots from 25 yards out to 350 yards with a red dot.

Damian

 

[CHALK22]

I was told the same thing about the 25/100 yd sighting. I started bang on at 25 yds, and spent all day trying to find my shot at 100 yds. Frustrated the hell out of me. Talked to a buddy, and he said to sight in 2 inches low at 25 yds, and it will be on at 100. That worked for me, got to about 1.5 moa. I was shooting all over the backside of the hill at the range the first time.

I was using 55g PMC factory loads the first time, and then 55g vmax handloads the second. Also 16" 1/9 twist barrel.

just me .02.

 

[taliv]

if you're planning for typical stages at 200+ that involve steel 10-12" steel gongs or flash targets, etc, then zero at 50, hold dead on out to 250, then hold top of the target out to 350

 

[Eb1]

Do a search for IBZ or RIBZ. You can find a write up on AR15.com and at Maryland's AR-15 website. This is how I setup my last AR-15 which was a COLT 1in9:1 twist. I shot mainly 55 grain bullets, and the sights tracked really well out to 300 yards.

 

[Birddog1911]

EB1 beat me to it, and speaks the truth.

 

[J_McLeod]

It's standard practice for the Army to zero their M4's and M16s at 25 yards because it has the same point of aim as 300 yards.

 

[ILikeLead]

It would ALL depend on the distance between the axis of your barrel and the axis of your sight. AKA scope height or sight height.

Simple geometry.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I'm ex military, even 38 years ago, we used "combat zero" which is 25 yards....then went on from there out to 500 yards, old M-16s rattled like crazy...wore out by the time I went thru basic in '72

 

[W.E.G.]

To take advantage of maximum point blank range, and using M193 ammo,
you need to zero iron-sight AR's at 50 yards.



The numbers change a little, or a lot, when you start messing with sight height and bullet weight.

 

[HorseSoldier]

The main proponent of the 25 meter zero is the US Army, which isn't phased by the superiority of zeroing at 50 meters when it comes to actual combat shooting.

 

[Birddog1911]

I'll stick with zeroing my rifles at 50 yards, which puts me in the bread basket from 0 to 350 yards. OP, read about the improved battle sight zero.

 

[Zombiphobia]

in the Army we zero at 20(i think) meters and it's dead on at 300.

several inches high at 50 meters,
maybe 6 inches high at 150
a few inches high at 250(not enough to notice with irons, though, if aiming center-mass.
and dead on at 300

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The Army can afford to zero at 25/300m because in qualification they shoot at E-silhouettes which are 40" tall. So if you hold center mass at 100m and send the round 6" high, it is no big deal. I haven't seen much discussion of how that is working for them in combat though.

3-gun shooters tend to zero at 50/225 because this is a very flat trajectory and the round is never more than 2.6" from the point of aim all the way out to 225m. This is handy; because if I am shooting at a 8" plate at 100m, I can't afford to be 6" high.

Using the IBSZ, I get the best of both worlds - a small and large aperture with a 50/225 m zero and I can still dial in elevation for shots past 300m.

 

[GCBurner]

The instructions for the A2 sights on my Colt HBAR call for sighting in at 25 yards/meters with the small rear aperture set up 2 clicks to the "Z" on the dial, adjusting the elevation by turning the front sight up or down to move the POI. Turning the dial back down to 0 and flipping to the large aperture should make the Point of Impact within +/- 3" out to 200 yards, and flipping to the small aperture should be right on at 300, without having to fiddle with the elevation dial at all. It seems to work that way with mine with standard M855 Ball ammo, anyway. I have a maximum distance of 200 meters at my range, so I can't check the 300+ meter adjustments.

 

[Tirod]

It' not about which is the right answer, it's about which is the right solution for what you are shooting.

The Army sights in at 25, and it gives an effective point blank range past 300. With milspec 2MOA guns, the round flies high and low in a "pie plate" about as far as most soldiers can accurately shoot. With an 8 inch spread at 400, and likely a bit low, it's still minute of enemy soldier.

IF the soldier aims and squeezes off a shot.

If they don't, all the burst fire and automatic weapons tend to fill the air and by sheer volume of fire, the enemy gets hit. It's why we went to full auto assault rifles, and discarded all the big recoil heavy guns that wouldn't be shot.

Combat isn't a range, the principles are different and take in a lot more human behavior, not ballistics. Soldiers practice shooting on pop up ranges that advance the target arrays in increasingly closer lifts, which is what an attacking enemy does. It would be like shooting an indoor pistol range while the target was being motored back in your lane, and here's hoping it doesn't start sideslipping, 'cause that's what a human would do - dodge your fire.

Sure, I'd sight in at 50 for a hunting rifle, those annoying bucks with their flag up grazing at 350m and wiggling their hoofs in their ears deserve it. Different game, different purpose, different sight in.

 

[TonyAngel]

I've been using the ballistics calculator at www.hornady.com/ballistics to get my rough dope on my loads. Just plug in your data, to include sight height. It's been pretty close.

 

[benEzra]

if you're planning for typical stages at 200+ that involve steel 10-12" steel gongs or flash targets, etc, then zero at 50, hold dead on out to 250, then hold top of the target out to 350

^^ This.

 

[saxrulez]

There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Before deciding where your Point of aim(POA) and Point of Impact(POI) should be you need to find out what kind of optic they are using if any. Your POI and POA at 25 yards is NOT the same if you're using any kind of optic which a huge majority. I've watched person after person zero their Aimpoints to be POA=POI at 25 yards as well as ACOG's. This is not correct. Then these people wonder why they can only qualify with scores of 25/40 on a qual range.

Find the CORRECT target for your optic and use that. E.G.
http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/M16A4-M4MWS_EOTech_Live_Fire_Target.pdf

This is the eotech target for a 25m zero which will put you dead on at 300 yards.

For an Aimpoint, you can zero at 50m with POA=POI and have a 200 yard zero. When this is done, to shoot 300 yards, you hold 1 dot over where you want the bullet to go. You can also zero at 25 yard with the correct target(similiar to the EOTECH I posted) and have a 300 yard zero.

Former SDM instructor.

 

[Sky]

I always start at 25yrds or closer.....now having said that......Red dots and irons I move to 50 yards for final zero which gives me a 200yrd POI with very little adjustment. If it is a scoped longer barreled gonna shoot something far far away I zero in at 25yrds and am usually just a tad bit high at 300yds. Final adjustment at 300 and am good to go..This has worked for me with several different rifles however I only hunt and am happy with moa of Jack Rabbit or hog...