Who'd have thunk a Mosin Nagant could be accurate?

[WelshShooter]

Ok the title is a bit of a cheat, as I have a Finnish M24 which has a heavy 30" barrel

Before we start, I picked up this rifle a year ago for £600 (very expensive ~$800 in your money). As milsurps go, this is standard pricing for a "rare" firearm here in the UK (standard Russian Mosina's are pretty common). The Finnish M24 has a tighter bore which allows for 30cal bullets to be used in a 7.62x54 case. Although I can shoot milsurp in this rifle, I'd much rather handload and use the correct bullet for the rifle and in the UK you need to store your ammo in a safe. Currently, I don't have the capacity for spam cans as well as all my other ammo so I'll stick with handloading.

I used Reload Swiss RS60 (same powder as Reloder 17) and a 185gr Lapua Scenar bullet at 75.0mm overall length. I bulk buy Lapua Scenar bullets in bulk which end up costing the same as the cheapest privi reloading bullets, which is great. I bumped the shoulders back 0.002" using a Redding full length die and some gauges made by a friend on a UK shooting forum. This is mostly for case life longevity rather than accuracy purposes, like you would for F class shooting etc.

Turns out this rifle is a real shooter! Bench rested at 100m without optics produces some excellent results. Starting loads were not impressive but at 49.7gr, 50.2gr and 50.7gr the magic happened! See attached pictures showing two five round groups of 50.2gr and 50.7gr, and a five round group of 51.2gr. The bad accuracy of 51.2gr may have been heat haze from the barrel, shooters fatigue or it could just be a bad load. I did not photograph the 49.7gr but the patches were in the same vacinity as the grouping imaged.

All in all, a good loading a shooting session. An accuracy node between 49.7gr and 50.7gr is really nice and forgiving even though I use a Lyman Gen6 to throw my charges. I am looking forward to loading more up between these charges to confirm that accuracy is consistent across this band.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Very nice rifle. I have shot several Finnish Mosin Nagants and they were extremely accurate so I'm not surprised. I think Sako rebuilt all the rifles they acquired. (I think)

 

[LoonWulf]

Nice! I've always had a soft spot for Mosins, my first sporterized rifle was a Mosin and it shot surprisingly well.

I've always used the 174smks in .311/.312 rifles, I honestly didn't know lapua made a Scenar in .31 Cal, very cool.

 

[WelshShooter]

Nice! I've always had a soft spot for Mosins, my first sporterized rifle was a Mosin and it shot surprisingly well.

I've always used the 174smks in .311/.312 rifles, I honestly didn't know lapua made a Scenar in .31 Cal, very cool.

If you look closely at the second paragraph of my long wall of text, you will see that the M24 has a tighter bore which allows you to use standard 30cal bullets like you weird for a 308win. A huge amount of variety at my disposal!

The only 311 cal bullet lapua makes is a 123gr FMJ.

 

[LoonWulf]

If you look closely at the second paragraph of my long wall of text, you will see that the M24 has a tighter bore which allows you to use standard 30cal bullets like you weird for a 308win. A huge amount of variety at my disposal!

The only 311 cal bullet lapua makes is a 123gr FMJ.

I'm an idiot, I actually knew that going in......can I blame the time?

 

[WelshShooter]

I'm an idiot, I actually knew that going in......can I blame the time?

You are excused this time Mr Wulf

 

[someguy2800]

I would have believed it. My 1942 Tula shoots a 4” group at 100 with iron sights and Brown Bear steel cased ammo. I’m confident it would be probably 2” with optics. Its completely unmodified.

Finish or Russian they are good functional battle rifles!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My hex receiver Mosin was made in 1932 and the wood and fit and finish are much nicer than the war time rifles. I have yet to use it in a military rifle shoot because my old eyes won't let me shoot it well enough. Maybe I can fit it with a period scope and go play lol.

 

[hdwhit]

WelshShooter wrote:
Who'd have thunk a Mosin Nagant could be accurate?

Maybe some of the people who were issued one of the 37 million or so rifles that were made, carried it into battle in the hundreds of wars and "conflicts" that have occurred in the last 120 years and lived to tell about it.

 

[entropy]

Very nice rifle. I have shot several Finnish Mosin Nagants and they were extremely accurate so I'm not surprised. I think Sako rebuilt all the rifles they acquired. (I think)

Sako did all the M24's Source: http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/app.php/page/86 Tikkakoski (Tikka) and VKT (Valmet) did M91's, M27's, (Only Tikka and a few Valmet) M28, (TIkka, and a few Sako) , and the M39 (all three)

Nice Finn; I'm not at all surprised it can shoot like that. My 'B' barrel M91 is pretty accurate too, but I haven't worked up handloads for it yet, so not as accurate as yours, Welsh Shooter!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

My Dad has a Valmet, very nice rifle!

As for the OP's original question......Vasily Zaytsev of course!

 

[farmerboy78]

I have 2 28/76 rifles, and they are as accurate as any modern rifle. I have shot one of them in f-open competition

 

[someguy2800]

As for the OP's original question......Vasily Zaytsev of course!

Simo Hayha might have had something to say about it too!

 

[rjbmjb]

Simo Hayha might have had something to say about it too!

Never heard of him (although I did know about Zaytsev), so I just looked him up. Very impressive. I've got to stop reading this forum- now I need to find a Finnish M24 to add to my collection of Russian Mosin Nagants

 

[Hondo 60]

Some mosins are great, some ??? NOT so much.

New nephew bought a 1944 at a lgs.
I cast with a Lee CTL312-160-2R.
His rifle loves em.
Bought my 1938 from gunbroker.
It does ok, but not like my nephew's.

 

[Danoobie]

I really like my old Izzy Hex, it's 1926, and like somebody else said, they did a much nicer job on them than the wartime rifles.
But, IME, while the cold shot is incredibly accurate, the pattern starts to open up right away, after the cold shot. The difference in
accuracy from the Finnish barrels is considerable.

Soviet tactics were
squad or platoon volleys, aimed at the belt of the approaching soldiers. So they were more than accurate enough to get the job done.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have a Mosin 91/30 built on a 1926 "hex" receiver and a Chinese Type 53 copy of the Mosin M1944 short rifle. Accuracy with run of the mill military surplus has been acceptable.

"... aimed at the belt ..."

With the sights at 100 (arshins? meters?) I can stay in the bullesye of the standrad 100yd target (from the bench) by aiming at the bottom of the five ring. In combat, I suppose, aiming at the enemy's belt buckle would put the trajectory between upper chest down to abdomen out to 500 yards or so. Good combat setting, but makes it hard to do standing off-hand position bullseye for score with as-issued sights.

 

[GooseGestapo]

removed by poster

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I also have a Finn Civil Guard 91/24 which is also known as the Lotta’s rifle. A good many of these rifles ended up being transferred into the Finn army and will have the boxed SA stamp on the left side of the receiver. The ones that are not SA stamped bring a little more money.
Here is a good write up on the rifle.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/M24-Rifle.asp

 

[Danoobie]

It is said the Germans built a “hunting” rifle, the Americans a “target” rifle, the Brits a “battle rifle”.
IMO, the Russians created “cannon fodder”... A rifle for untrained conscripts to pick up off the battle field and rush the enemy.
The Mosin does make a better battle pike!
But they do go bang! (If you can pull trigger)

IMO, the Mosin Nagant was a strong, service able rifle. Battles were won using them. But while the Garand, Enfield , and Mauser's redeeming qualities were
sometimes named with being the deciding factor which carried a battle or campaign, I highly doubt the Mosin or Carcano
were ever assigned such credit.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

IMO, the Mosin Nagant was a strong, service able rifle. Battles were won using them. But while the Garand, Enfield , and Mauser's redeeming qualities were
sometimes named with being the deciding factor which carried a battle or campaign, I highly doubt the Mosin or Carcano
were ever assigned such credit.

Mosins were used on both sides in the Winter War (Soviet invasion of Finland on 30 November 1939). The Finns had better marksmen and used better tactics. But when it came right down to it, it was Mosin against Mosin and the Mosin came out on top, well the better Mosin came out on top.

 

[Danoobie]

Mosins were used on both sides in the Winter War (Soviet invasion of Finland on 30 November 1939). The Finns had better marksmen and used better tactics. But when it came right down to it, it was Mosin against Mosin and the Mosin came out on top, well the better Mosin came out on top.

But the Finnish M/N was superlative. In the end it was superior tactics and soldiery, and not the rifle, which decided that campaign.

 

[someguy2800]

I have a Mosin and a Mauser and I can’t see any functional advantage to either. They both work just fine and mine are equally accurate. If I was going into battle I’d rather have an Enfield and I would throw both of them in the nearest ditch for a Garand.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The Finns bought, or were given, a lot of surplus Mosins from WWI hat came from Germany. These are the rifles that reworked or parted out to build new rifles, such as the OP's rifle M24. They also built M27's, M27/28's, M28's and M91's. I would have to say that the Finn Mosins were better built then the Russians. Now they did capture a lot of Russian 91/30's that they put to good use. I have a Finn marked 91/30 that has two 41 stamps. The 41 stamp was put on rifles that had to be repaired from battle damage. Kind of like a Purple Hart for a rifle. The Finns had to use everything they could get their hands on.
Also the Russian Army had poor leadership due to Stalin purging the upper ranks of the military when he took power. The Finns are a proud people and should be. They are the only small country that kicked Mother Russia's but on their own.
If you haven't read Rifles Of the White Death by Doug Bowser, pick up a copy.

 

[WelshShooter]

Exactly what Gunny just said. My rifle is over 120 years old. It was an original 1891 model Mosin Nagant which was rebarreled in the early 1920's by Finland with new wood furniture to match. After Finland achieved their independence from Russia they had a bunch of Mosin Nagant's leftover and no tooling to make new receivers. Therefore, they would sort through the Mosina's they had at their disposal. Wood furniture was replaced if it were cracked, or on the verge of cracking, and barrels were replaced when they were considered to be shot out. The barrels were subcontracted by a Swiss firm (I forget their name), and a German firm who stamped their barrels with "Bohler Stahl", of which mine is the latter. The barrels were designed to fire a .309" projectile, but in my case (pun intended!) a .308" projectile works perfectly fine too.