Why a 38 Special

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ok - point taken, PPS. . . . .

anybody can have a really good day at the range or a gun that consistently outperforms expectations. Count yourself fortunate in either case but my point about practicing with what you carry still stands. Nice group BTW.
 
Hangtime, I too believe in practicing with what you carry. I just think that 38's out of a .357 won't affect accuracy enough to matter when it comes to all the other variables that have to fall into play to have a good (accurate) day at the range.
 
My take.

If you're going to use a revolver for bullseye shooting, a dedicated .38 rather than .38s out of a .357 will most likely give you a higher score.

The difference in accuracy won't count for bat guano if your purpose for the revolver is personal defense.

Unless maybe you're planning on engaging somebody at 100 yards or so.

:cool:
 
Size, weight, and power are all a trade off in a carry gun. Since I can get anything done with a 38 that I can with a 357, I'll take the smaller, lighter gun. Now for the range or HD, I'll go with the 357.
 
I don't know why folks buy those 38 spcl's. The .357 is a much better platform as I can hotload 38's that can be fired safely and comfortably from a .357, but would be tough to control out of a .38

And what's wrong with bullseye shooting with hot loaded .38's at 100 yards? If I can hit in the 9 and 10 ring at 100 yards, do you think I can't do even better at 10 yards?
 
My first handgun was a .357, and I've shot a lot of .38 specials through it over the years. But when it came time to get a concealed-carry revolver, I wanted something smaller and much lighter. When I came across a good deal on a S&W Airweight, I bought it.

Both .38s and .357s have their place, but personally, I prefer shooting a .38.
 
GunLvrNLearner

Why a 38 Special?

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What are the main reasons people buy 38's when for not a whole lot mre you can get a 357 that fires both?
$400 for an .38spl Airweight,. $675 for a .357 Airlite. That's a whole lot more IMHO.

$425 for a Ruger SP101 .357, but it's the weight factor.

And I'm not going to get into Braztech's, they aren't bad, but for the investment, just go up to S&W or Ruger.
 
But look at some of the revolvers that come in either 38 or 357. They are the same gun. Look at, for instance, the model 64 and the model 65. What's the difference?

The difference is in the length of the cylinder, the .357 Mag cylinder is longer and that makes the barrel a tad shorter.
 
Easy answer - have thought a lot about it:

#1) The Smith K-frame reaches the perfection of proportion when chambered in the .38spl. The .357 is too much for it. If you want a K-frame gun, .38spl is the cartridge it was built for. It's a question of balance.

Sure, you could get the discontinued model-19's, but then (this is point #2) you'd be scrubbing the hell out of your chambers every cleaning time. The additional scum ring is SO annoying.

#3) I decided I would only shoot subsonics in my defensive gun(s). This essentially means .38spl. Same for the bullseye and IDPA revolvers (one has two uses, you guess which). So the long chambers get me nothing but extra cleaning (reason #2). Besides, both of those guns are K-frames, so #1 applies too. I could handload .357's just like I handload .38's, but it's more powder and a native .38 is what the K-frame is for.

#4) I have a .357 for power loads. I can't hunt with a handgun where I am, but I can dream about it with my Blackhawk at the range. Short-barrel .357's are goofy, hearing destroying devices. Give me 4.5"+ in a magnum. That gun never sees a .38spl case as I won't pollute my lovely .357 chambers with a nigh uncleanable scum ring (see #2 again).

-Daizee
 
Because there are some neat old guns out there that only shoot the .38?



Also there are an amazing number of loadings for the caliber. The combinations seem to be endless. (if you reload)
 
Late at night when I'm lying in bed listening to the rain pitter-patter on the roof I, sometimes, ask myself this very same question. :D

Between the two I have always preferred the 357 magnum over the 38 special. If I want lighter loads I'll load my 357 magnum cartridge cases down to 38 velocity. Accuracy has never been a problem.

I'll train with 357 target loads for most of the day; and, before leaving the range, I'll switch to several cylinders of full house magnums. Yes, there is more: noise, flash, and muzzle lift; but, the cylinder empties right where I want it to, COM; and, no matter what, the 357 magnum is just a harder hitting round.

With either caliber they say the best cartridge is the old, 'FBI load'. 158 grain LSWC-HP, or a JHP bullet. I'm presently using 125 grain Speer GDHP's in my short barreled 357's. Haven't shot any zombies with them yet; but, they seem to be fine. ;)
 
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I agree that when we're talking about combat accuracy, 38s in 357 chambers won't matter one whit.

Price is one issue: there's lots of used yet nice 38s out there like the aforementioned S&W 15. One of the best shooting guns of all time is the old Colt Officer's Match in 38, which was basically the ancestor to the Python except it's half the price.

But there's also a big practical issue.

A 19oz 357 gun shooting "real" 357s will be a major handful for most shooters. Even shooting many "mild" 357s will be harsh. A gun below 19oz is basically getting ridiculous shooting 357s.

So a lot of people buy 2" barrel 357s and then shoot nothing but 38 in them. In my opinion, a big mistake and possibly a fatal one.

You'll lose up to 50fps with the longer chamber. At least 30fps by most tests I've seen published.

Commercial ammo that expands reliably in a 38Spl 2" barrel do exist. Two of the best are the Speer Gold Dot 135+P (doing 860fps from a 2") and the Remington plain lead hollowpoint 158+P (doing about 850ish). These loads and a few others do work, but they're borderline. Run them any slower and they could fail to expand.

Once you have a 3" or 4" barrel 357, this problem goes away. This is why I like the SP101 with a 3" tube - to make sure 38+Ps will work well despite the 357 chambers. I also like tight gaps in 38 snubbies and it's all about this same issue - bullet speed.

Now, you can always run Buffalo Bore's 38+P which carry enough extra energy to work no matter what - but there's both a recoil and cost penalty. Damn fine ammo, don't get me wrong.
 
I have a beautiful Model 66, and it's the most accurate revolver I own. But I also have 2 Model 10s from different decades and they're wonderful too. So why shoot .357?

Because I can.

My aim has gotten a lot better in the last two years. At one point I couldn't put .357 on the paper at 10 yards. Too much recoil, too much blast, I told myself. .38 is much more controllable. And it is. And .38 out of the 66 is great. But as I've practiced, and consistently hit with the 38 Spl, I've found the 357 Mag to be easier to handle. There isn't less recoil than 2 years ago, but I have a better grip, I'm using the sights correctly, and I don't flinch anymore. It was never about the round, but about me. I can shoot .38 all day long, and often do, but because .357 is a challenge to me I've become a better shooter.

All other things being equal, you'll pay less for 38 Spl, both guns and ammo. Don't pay attention to the writers in the glossy gun magazines who say that Thirty Eight Special is for retirees and housewives and won't stop a jittery cat. They all worship the 45 Ay Cee Pee, and spend $5000 to upgrade a 1911 so they can write about it. Again. :rolleyes:

And the older .38s, from the 20s through the 60s, are little works of American art. Even S&W seems to have lost the secret of that wonderful blueing they used to use (the current blued Colts and Taurii are just mockeries of what was). People at the range with their plastic and stainless steel pistols will walk over to me and ask about them, and smile very broadly when I invite them to run six through the cylinder. A fifty year old S&W for $200 is within the realm of possibility, and still a great gun.

Either way is a good choice. Get the used S&W .38 Special now though--you can buy a new .357 later. :)
 
All arguments in favor of the .38 Spl. are valid, IMHO. I agree with -nearly- all of them & couldn't add any that hasn't already been said.
It warms my heart to see so many prefer the true .38 Spl.-only-guns (as opposed to 357/38).
I thought we were a minority, if not a dying breed.
Why is it then, you think,that so few .38-only guns are made nowadays ?
Any clues ?
 
For carry in a small snubbie like a 642, I prefer the .38 Spl as it allows for a slightly smaller, lighter gun. I don't want to shoot a .357 mag out of a little gun anyway. For hunting or woods carry a full size revolver like a GP100 is my choice in .357 mag.

actually...357's can be lighter. Take for example the 340pd, coming in at right about 12oz, compare to...what, 15oz in a model 642? :) Even the m&p340 (not all that much more expensive than the 642 when you consider the night sight) is lighter than the 642 by 2 ounces or so. Sure, 3oz isn't alot...until you consider that it's 1/5th of the weight of the gun! (or if you look at it from the other direction, 1/4th!)

I've got a 642 myself...but every time I look at it I wish i'd sprung for the lighter gun in .357. Granted, if you load that 12oz .357 up with some full house .357 loads, you will be nursing a cut finger most likely...but many people overlook the fact that .357's come in all kinds of loadings...you can get a couple hundred more feet per second over a .38spl and not be overwhelmed by the recoil (think a 158gr round between 1000fps-1100fps from a 2" barrel instead of ~850-900fps), and your gun is lighter (good for ankle or pocket carry) to boot....and since the gun is designed for higher pressure, you don't wear it out as quickly as a .38spl designed revolver. Also, the 642's sites suck compared to the m&p 340 :( Though the 340pd comes with similar sites as the 642.

Some people are very recoil sensitive, and in those cases there's not really much benefit to going with a .357 at all.
 
Why would I want to PAY for a 340 in .357 when I can spend 1/4 that on a good ultralite .38? I ain't gonna shoot .357s in anything lighter than a SP101 anyway. :rolleyes:

There are plenty of .38 models still made for concealment since it makes ultimate sense, probably STILL the best possible caliber offering for a light weight pocket sized snubby. The number of medium frame offerings is a might thin now days, I'll admit, but I have no problem with owning medium frame .357s and shooting .38s in 'em and I do have an old Smith M10 for my pleasure. :D My .38s include a Rossi M68 3", a Taurus M85SSUL 2", and a 4" heavy barrel Smith and Wesson M10 made in the early 60s and still tight and accurate. I have a 3" and a 4" M66 Taurus 357s and a Ruger 6.5" Blackhawk in that caliber as well as a Rossi 92 carbine in .357. All these get fired more with .38 than .357 except perhaps the Blackhawk that I hunt with and practice mostly with full power .357 loads.
 
Another thought as to why I don't have nor will i consider .357 2" pocket gun. I get 1262fps/410 ft lbs out of my little 14 ounce Kel Tec P11 little square revolver. :D I couldn't do a lot better than that with a 340 with any load I could possibly handle in a 12 ounce gun and the 9mm has considerably less recoil and muzzle blast while putting up those numbers. It's very accurate (3.5" groups from a rest at 25 yards) and has a concealed hammer and 13 rounds on tap in a pocket gun smaller and flatter and easier to hide than a J frame and the reload I carry is a LOT easier to carry than friggin' speed loaders and a lot faster in use. It is accurate and 100 percent reliable. All that is why it gets carried the most plus the fact that I've fired it so much, it just sorta points itself. I love my revolvers, but I'm a practical guy. Besides, my Kel Tec has no lock.
 
Why would I want to PAY for a 340 in .357 when I can spend 1/4 that on a good ultralite .38? I ain't gonna shoot .357s in anything lighter than a SP101 anyway.
Indeed, if you are sensitive to recoil and can't handle a .357 in a very light revolver, the benefits are just not there. How do you see a 340 being 4 times the cost of a ultralite .38? My 642 cost me right at 400$, BNIB. My coworker just bought a 340PD for 699$, BNIB, and the M&P 340's are cheaper by 100-150$ and come with night sights. Sure, it's certainly more expensive...but not even close to 4x the cost; by that math, the 340pd should be running ~1600$ :rolleyes:. And yes, you can buy a cheaper small .38 than a S&W 642/442/etc, but so long as you're comparing apples to apples in quality and weight, you aren't going to be looking at 4x the cost.

If you trust a keltec autoloader then that's certainly a great alternative for you. I think i'd prefer 158gr rounds @ 1100fps to 115-125gr @ 1262fps, but you know, we're already well into the land of personal preference once we bring kel-tec autoloaders into a discussion about .38spl vs. .357mag ;)
 
You're almost making me rethink my choice of using a .38spl SP101 and a Model 15 as our house guns. Almost.

Oh! OK. I'm over it. :)

The house guns are also used by my wife. She hates .357. She shoots very well with the two snubbies listed above. Shoot what you practice with.

I don't feel under gunned or poorly protected.
 
I got a deal on a Smith Mod. 10 from the gun shop. 4" bb. Tuned for IDPA, ported, and chambered for 38 Spl.

It wouldn't sell because it wasn't .357 and wasn't stainless. One of my favorite handguns, $185 out the door about 10 yrs ago.

I have tons and tons of 38 brass, loading 158 gr. SWC Oregon Trails laser cast bullets. Cheap shoot.

With the heavy frame, this gun can be loaded ++ P in published Hodgdon loads which overlap the low end .357 mag loads.
 
38 spcl because it is still an effective load, the guns are often light, easy to handle and usually easy to conceal if you must conceal.

I use a on of 2 357's to shoot my 38's and I have to spend more time cleaning the cylinder but it is just as accurate out to 50 yards as the 357.
 
Keltec P11 100% reliable? :scrutiny:
I owned one of these jewels two years ago and except for the broken extractor, three bad magazines and long heavy gritty trigger (which adversely affects accuracy) it was very reliable:rolleyes: Also, even after break-in the gun still wouldn't feed reliably with certain brands of factory ammo. Don't have to worry about things like that with my J-frame.

It doesn't matter how many rounds a gun carries if with just one failure it can become a single shot.

As far as pocket carry goes the rounded and curved shape of a J-frame hides much better in my pocket than the squared off slide and blocky grip of the P11.

Sure, Keltec will repair the guns for free and that would be nice if you can convince the criminal to hold off his attack until you got your gun back from repair :eek:
 
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