Why a bipod instead of a sling when prone?

[MrBorland]

Just curious -

High Power's all about accuracy, and they use a sling. But outside of formal target shooting, a bipod is typically used, even in practical rifle competitions, which places heavy emphasis on accuracy. What gives? Is it easier/faster to get prone with a bipod? Is the sight picture steadier? Or is it that a bipod is easier to learn?

 

[Toml]

A bipod is a rest. A sling is a brace.

 

[Canuck-IL]

A lot is tradition ... highpower at least nominally still has a relationship to typically required infantry skills which would have emphasized sling shooting.

For rapid fire, I can do better with a sling than a bipod, altho I've never even tried a bipod with irons, just scopes.
/Bryan

 

[henschman]

Most people can get a little bit more steady for slow-fire with a bipod than they can with a sling. With a bipod, you are laying the rifle on an artificial solid support. With a sling, you are using your body as a solid support (braced by the sling). The difference is that the bipod doesn't have a pulse, and it isn't connected to muscles or lungs or anything else that can cause variation. However, with the use of padded shooting coats, padded gloves, and super-tight slings, High Power shooters can get just about as stable with a sling as they could with a bipod... but those things aren't really practical for field use. A sling used in the field will typically not be quite as steady as a bipod. The difference isn't much... I would say an experienced shooter could shoot MOA with a sling, but sub-MOA with a bipod.

However, a sling has some advantages too... for one, it doesn't add weight and bulk out on the end of your handguard, like a bipod does. A sling is also more versatile... you can use it in any position, regardless of whether there is a nice semi-level solid surface at the proper height under you, like a bipod requires. Also, a sling pulls the rifle back into your shoulder pocket without any muscle input on your part. That is why a sling is better for precise rapid-fire, and quick follow-up shots. You also don't get the "bounce" of a bipod, and the shifting POA that comes with it.

 

[Shoobee]

I have used both, and a bipod is definitely faster for hunting. My longest kill on a buck is 425 yards and for this I was prone with a bipod.

I did several years of sling shooting for qualifications in the military as well, and have always found that contortion to be awkward and strictly a menace of military methods with little or no practical value, they way they do it. Just something that evolved for the rifle range, because somebody anciently thought of it, and it somehow stuck.

 

[chrome_austex]

Its an interesting question:

Slings to get tiresome after 15 minute of so of sitting in position, while bipods don't cut off your circulation. Slings are also usually paired with a stiff jacket to get that ultimate accuracy, while bipods are paired with a rear bag.

Loosing the use of one arm to a sling is inconvenient. With a bipod, both arms remain free.

I can see the sling being better for rapid fire, as it causes the rifle to return to position well, while the bipod will often jump off target if you're not running a comp or suppressor.

Bipods are also compatible with 1 and 2-point slings for carry (particularly with gear on), and can assist accuracy shooting through windows or off tables, while slings only work if you can get support off your elbow. FWIW, I can shoot sitting with a sling, but my prone/bench bipod is waaay to short.

Also, try supporting a 50cal with a sling and see how long your arm lasts.

 

[Sam1911]

I'd say a bipod is easier to be steady with, over a wider variety of positions. Obviously, not all real-world shooting is done from a flat, grassy spot, and shot over level ground. You can set up a bipod to help shoot over a wall or truck hood, from a bench or other seated position, from prone, from a window ledge, etc. A sling used in the manners required for High-Power competition (the only sling use able to get close to the stability of a bipod) does not lend itself easily to that kind of position flexibility.

But for most military uses, bipods haven't been, aren't, and probably won't be issued to the common infantryman. As they aren't useful for the kind of shooting done in "most" combat engagements (up close, fast, very mobile, fast and radical transitions), they just add weight and bulk. While a sling might be used every once in a while by an infantryman for a long range steady shot, it can be used every hour of his day to help him carry his rifle around.

So, a matter of a device that makes it easier to carry my rifle aound, or a device that makes the load heavier and harder to carry?

 

[henschman]

Which one is faster depends on the type of sling. I have some slings that are very quick to get in and out of, for field use. One of these is a sling incorporated into a 2-point tactical sling. I can get in and out of it in about 2 seconds. Even a standard 1907 leather shooting sling is really quick to get into, if you don't worry about giving it the half-twist, or cinching down the keepers. You can get into one of those in a couple seconds too, if you just stick your arm through the loop and wrap your wrist.

A sling does not require a supported elbow. They can be used in the standing position as well, and provide a lot more support than just a muscle-supported position. A sling-supported standing position is even more stable when used in conjunction with a tree or other solid support.

Personally, I like a sling for a battle rifle, carbine, or hunting rifle, and a bipod for a long range precision/sniper rifle. But even for the precision rifle, I like to have a shooting sling as well!

 

[MtnCreek]

Also, it folds nicely and comes in handy if your bi-pod breaks. Shooting from a sling is an art that I have not mastered, but hope to. For me, I can adjust from target to target quicker with a bi-pond.

 

[MtnCreek]

Question for those good with a sling: How do you keep the loop in the correct position on your arm when transitioning between targets? Like when you scoot a little to go to the next target.

Thanks!

 

[Slamfire]

NRA Highpower traces its roots to pre WW1 Military rifle qualification courses.

The NRA was set up to train civilians to shoot before they were inducted into the military. The organization was run by retired military from the 1870's up to the 1960s’.

Starting in the 1950’s, marksmanship in the military took a very low priority. Sometime around 1964 the Army decided to shoot on the “1000 inch” range, and developed “train fire” and other quick and dirty shooting practices. Regular Army financial support for the National Matches ended in 1967; the Army said it had better things to do with its money. When that happened, NRA highpower became a sport, as the people running highpower events are fans and participants, and the relevancy of the sport to current military trends can be debated.

So what you see in NRA highpower with sling shooting, iron sight shooting, the course of fire is a legacy of an Army course of fire that was thought to be related to combat shooting prior to WW1.

It is harder to shoot prone with a sling than prone with a bipod. That is why it became necessary for the half MOA target for F class. The target had to get smaller.

Whether the sling is still a useful shooting aid, heck if I know. I shoot sling because I got good at it and that is what is required for highpower and small bore prone. What I see in magazines are portable tables, stands, sticks, all designed to provide solid support in the field, so the trend is away from sling shooting.

 

[pseudonymity]

Question for those good with a sling: How do you keep the loop in the correct position on your arm when transitioning between targets? Like when you scoot a little to go to the next target.

By pivoting around your forward sling elbow. Think of the sling arm elbow as a single pivot point, kind of like a monopod. You transition between targets with a sling by moving around that pivot point - for prone, moving your hips and feet for lateral targets, and adjusting your back arch for elevation.

I think it is actually a bit easier to transition targets with a sling prone than when using a bipod, especially if you use a rear bag. With the bipod you have to either pivot around the bipod or move the front of the rifle and adjust your body. Either way, it seems you lose your cheek weld with the stock when move with a bipod, and moving the bipod when it is placed on an uneven or unsteady surface like gravel can really make a large difference in POA. With a sling it is easier to adjust for a (limited) range of surfaces by varying your arch or sling arm angles.

Overall I think prone bipod with a rear bag is about as steady as you can get without a full on bench rest setup, but the sling provides much of the accuracy but more mobility.

 

[JAV8000]

Bopods ARE issued to all deploying combat arms soldiers these days. I just got back from Afghanistan a few months ago, we were issued the spring actuated vertical fore grip/bipod combination. I ditched mine when I operated as a grenadier but came to love my Harris bipod when I was trained up as a designated marksman with the M14 EBR. They work extremely well in conjunction with a sand sock while operating in field conditions, trust me.

 

[Sam1911]

Bopods ARE issued to all deploying combat arms soldiers these days. ...we were issued the spring actuated vertical fore grip/bipod combination.

Aaah, I didn't even think of those. Good point!

 

[MrBorland]

Thanks for the great feedback, folks.

I've been focused on handgunning, but am trying to improve my rifle skills a bit lately. I'm trying to avoid the bench, working on my field positions instead. I'm using a Turner military sling, which lets me shoot from the seated position as well, but was curious why bipods seem to rule prone.

I have a bipod in one of my box o' goodies, so I'll break it out at some point. Sounds like it's a good idea to competent with a sling and a bipod.

 

[Averageman]

But for most military uses, bipods haven't been, aren't, and probably won't be issued to the common infantryman. As they aren't useful for the kind of shooting done in "most" combat engagements (up close, fast, very mobile, fast and radical transitions), they just add weight and bulk.
If you need a Bipod for a long disttance shot you take your helmet off and use it as a bipod. The common Infantryman can't carry everything but he can improvise with what he has very well.

 

[JAV8000]

Averageman, they are, I was there. We were all issued the polymer combo verticle hand grip bipods. Don't get me wrong, I'm just an average everyday infantryman who was trained up as a squad designated marksman on the M14 EBR which is issued with a HRris bipod.....I'm a good shot, though nothing overly special yet, I'm hoping to be accepted into sniper section so I can recieve sniper training. SDMs ARE NOT snipers by any means of the imagination, we are just more capable of engaging medium range (generally out to 800ms) targets as a member of a standard infantry fire team. The EBRs are equipped with Leupold mark 4 3.5-10 power scopes.

As to bipods ruling while prone, well, it depends on what youre doing. If you will remain static, nothing really beats a well placed front bag with a supporting rear bag. If you want to shoot and move, a quality bipod with supporting sand sock for rear pistol grip support is as good as it gets. It's a different game though, what with loading the bipod, adjusting grip on sand sock for fine crosshairs alignment, and dealing with bipod hop during recoil for fast follow up shots. I can get more in depth if you'd like, just ask.

 

[mookiie]

JAV8000 - please more details

 

[mookiie]

JAV8000 - keep going please

 

[JAV8000]

As far as bipods go, there are many that will work well. I personally train with thr GG&G. It is not not a swivel version but allows can't from side to side and gives you any level of adjustment in elevation out to its maximum height from side to side. A Harris is fine though I've found it's spring loaded legs to jam up under adverse sandy conitions (Afghanistan). If you have a 6 o'clock picatinny rail, there are better, albeit more expensive options out there....Blackhawk, Atlas, GG&G to name a few. Sand socks give you stability and the ability to adjust your elevation by means of squeezing them more or less. You can buy them pre made or you can make them out of a GI issue sock filled with sand or air soft BBs. I like air soft BBs, I feel they give you smoother control, it's what I use. Loading a bipod is just the act of putting your body weight against the weapon system and bipod in a manner that improves your overall steadiness. Breathe in, let your chest expand, allow your weapon to follow, and then exhale which pushes the legs of your bipod into whatever they're set in. This aso helps mitigate bipod hop (what happens when you fire and you lose your original point of aim due to recoil). Fast follow up shots are dependent on good form, this takes practice. Quick adjust two point slings are excellent when shooting offhand, be it standing or modified sitting. They contour in length to you're gear regardless of position and allow you the opportunity to sling up tight, quickly. Three point slings do little for any level of ranged engagements. Remember, spend more on ammo than anything, live fire for practice is what will make you proficient!

 

[madcratebuilder]

JAV8000, good luck on getting excepted for sniper training and stay safe.

 

[chg]

I still use a sling for big game hunting, though use a bipod for varmints. In my case it's how much more weight do you want to carry in steep, brushy country? I want as little as possible so the sling gets the nod. Varmint hunting is more open, flater country and lots more shooting at small targets, so the bipod comes into play.