Legionnaire
Contributing Member
What benefit does an AR with 11.5" barrel and 4.5" flash hider have over a 16" barrel with a short flash hider? What am I missing here?
Curious minds want to know ...
Curious minds want to know ...
Why an 11.5" AR with 4.5" flash hider?
- Thread starter Legionnaire
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boofus
Guest
If you are building a XM177 copy it won't look right without the extra long flash hider.
Some guys dig the Vietnam-era look for their ARs.
Some guys dig the Vietnam-era look for their ARs.
Phantom Warrior
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2003
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I too would like to know. I can't stand the 4.5" flash hider look. Frankly, I don't much like flash hiders at all. I just bought a 16" and a 20" AR, both w/ straight HBAR barrels. What purpose is there for having a flash hider?
BlackCat
member
So you can stay on target and keep blasting away at the zombies without the muzzle flash ruining your night vision.
Mulliga
Member
Another reason: If the user makes it an SBR in the future, the barrel is already at super-tactical-ninja-CQB length, meaning all that is needed is to take off the long flash hider and put on a regular size one. Also, you could put a suppressor on it. 
jefnvk
Member
I like that look. Had it not been about $70 more than the kit I bought, I'd have done it.
It may come as a shock to some people to learn that some people buy guns or gun accessories just because they want to. They own them because they enjoy owning them. They don't have to express some valid reason or justification beyond the fact that they want it.
I happen to own two of the uppers/barrels in question.
The first one I bought for the upper. I intended to take the upper apart and use the receiver to build an M16A1 clone (semi-auto of course, but looking like the rifle I was issued in the Army, circa 1981). The second one I got when I bought a "pre-ban" AR during the ban. I was actually buying the lower receiver and never gave the upper a thought. As it happened, I took one that first one out and shot it. It shot fine. Pretty decent accuracy and I thought it looked pretty cool. The second one is my beater upper. I sometimes use it with a friends M16 to do mag dumps and stuff such as that, because I don't want to abuse my other uppers.
Right now, I own nine complete AR15s with a couple uppers left over. I have three more stripped lowers ordered : two are going to be registered as SBRs. The thrid is going to be used as an AR pistol that has a 7" barrel. I am also thinking about buying a bunch of new uppers which I wont' get into right now. I am trying to get some of my friends interested in getting together and building an 80% lower or two, just to say we did it.
Bottom line, I am a hobbyist. I buy stuff that pulls my chain. I buy stuff that is fun to shoot. I don't care about bullet fragmentation and all that internet BS. If I start worrying about it, I will just use another upper. Or I will use another gun. Whatever. I have AR15 uppers with barrels ranging from 7" - 24". I am sure I can find one that will serve my needs. Until then, any of them punch paper and ring steel just fine.
I happen to own two of the uppers/barrels in question.
The first one I bought for the upper. I intended to take the upper apart and use the receiver to build an M16A1 clone (semi-auto of course, but looking like the rifle I was issued in the Army, circa 1981). The second one I got when I bought a "pre-ban" AR during the ban. I was actually buying the lower receiver and never gave the upper a thought. As it happened, I took one that first one out and shot it. It shot fine. Pretty decent accuracy and I thought it looked pretty cool. The second one is my beater upper. I sometimes use it with a friends M16 to do mag dumps and stuff such as that, because I don't want to abuse my other uppers.
Right now, I own nine complete AR15s with a couple uppers left over. I have three more stripped lowers ordered : two are going to be registered as SBRs. The thrid is going to be used as an AR pistol that has a 7" barrel. I am also thinking about buying a bunch of new uppers which I wont' get into right now. I am trying to get some of my friends interested in getting together and building an 80% lower or two, just to say we did it.
Bottom line, I am a hobbyist. I buy stuff that pulls my chain. I buy stuff that is fun to shoot. I don't care about bullet fragmentation and all that internet BS. If I start worrying about it, I will just use another upper. Or I will use another gun. Whatever. I have AR15 uppers with barrels ranging from 7" - 24". I am sure I can find one that will serve my needs. Until then, any of them punch paper and ring steel just fine.
WhiteKnight
Member
beerslurpy
member
Theyre gun ricers.
Putting a suppressor on a gun with a muzzle velocity between 2500 and 3100 fps seems kinda pointless so i dont buy that reason either. Plus, anyone who can buy a rifle can buy a supressor, so they would have done it already if they wanted one.
Putting a suppressor on a gun with a muzzle velocity between 2500 and 3100 fps seems kinda pointless so i dont buy that reason either. Plus, anyone who can buy a rifle can buy a supressor, so they would have done it already if they wanted one.
El Rojo
Member
beerslurpy
member
Well theyll never get your lucky charms with you armed like that.
chopinbloc
Member
why not?
actually i bought it 'cause it looked cool, but i'm curious about the practicality of it. if it can also drop targets reliably out to say, 25m, then maybe i'll grab it when the evil robot aliens come. 'til then, it's like someone else said, it rings steel and pokes holes in paper just fine.
PERFECT!
actually i bought it 'cause it looked cool, but i'm curious about the practicality of it. if it can also drop targets reliably out to say, 25m, then maybe i'll grab it when the evil robot aliens come. 'til then, it's like someone else said, it rings steel and pokes holes in paper just fine.
OP
OP
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Okay, I get the point. Guess my original question should have asked, "What practical benefit ... ?" "Cool factor" is fine by me, if that's what floats your boat. "Cheap" is good, too! But an 11.5" barrel with a 4.5" flash hider isn't a SBR, so I was wondering, "what's the point?" But I won't argue with "the market" if the demand is there.
jefnvk
Member
What's the point of buying a 24" upper? There is no real advantage over a 20".
What is the point of buying a 14.5" with a permenant flash hider? It isn't an SBR. Why not just buy the 16"?
Comes down to it is what I want. I'm shooting paper, not people like some on these boards like to believe. Fragmentation, speed, that all means nothing to me. I couldn't care if that bullet came out at 3100 or 2500, as long as it came out.
What is the point of buying a 14.5" with a permenant flash hider? It isn't an SBR. Why not just buy the 16"?
Comes down to it is what I want. I'm shooting paper, not people like some on these boards like to believe. Fragmentation, speed, that all means nothing to me. I couldn't care if that bullet came out at 3100 or 2500, as long as it came out.
jason10mm
Member
Probably back in the 60's when the 11.5" was developed, they needed a long flashhider to adequately suppress the flash, while the 20" could get away with the 3 prong or the birdcage (and since 16" OAL was still less than 20" OAL, it got away with the carbine moniker). Nowadays our ammo is different and it isn't necessary.
Just a SWAG on my part, anyone have the right book to look it up?
Just a SWAG on my part, anyone have the right book to look it up?
GreenFurniture
Member
HTML:
so I was wondering, "what's the point?"Market for retro styled weapons and people also want to have an 11.5 barrel without the messy SBR paperwork.
Of course the first thing I do is whip out the wrench and make it a true 11.5 barrel and slap it on an M16.
jason10mm: The real version that was issued back in the Vietnam days was also a sound suppressor. Legend has it that it dropped the report down to the level of a 20" rifle. These are now NFA weapons. So, if you want that look, but don't want to pay for an origonal and the tax stamp: you buy the version we see now.
"Putting a suppressor on a gun with a muzzle velocity between 2500 and 3100 fps seems kinda pointless "
Putting a suppressor on one of these uppers would certainly be pointless. These uppers have an 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" flash suppressor. If you put a suppressor on it, I woud assume you would remove the 4.5" flash suppressor making the whole exercise pointless.
For an upper to be used with a suppressor, the 10.5" LMT is just the ticket. Although my 7.5" barreled upper is outfitted for my suppressor as well.
"Putting a suppressor on a gun with a muzzle velocity between 2500 and 3100 fps seems kinda pointless "
Putting a suppressor on one of these uppers would certainly be pointless. These uppers have an 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" flash suppressor. If you put a suppressor on it, I woud assume you would remove the 4.5" flash suppressor making the whole exercise pointless.
For an upper to be used with a suppressor, the 10.5" LMT is just the ticket. Although my 7.5" barreled upper is outfitted for my suppressor as well.
El Rojo
Member
They will if there are 11 of them after me lucky charms. That the dreaded PRK legal FAB-10 with a detachable storage unit disguised as a magazine. Yes my friends, that thing only can shoot 10 rounds, then you need to reload. That is why I need a bayonet. :banghead:
JadeFalcon
Member
I believe that the objects in question are compensators/muzzle-brakes, not flash hiders. Flash hiders are cone shaped devices while comps are fitted with either slots(M-16) or holes (ala pepperbox). They can be round(M-16) or flat(like the bigguns on the Barrett .50BMG rifles).
jobu07
Contributing Member
That isn't necessarily true...
jefnvk
Member
Yep, no silencers here in MI. Plus, those silencers are a few hundred dollars, plus the $200 tax stamp. The fake supressors are like $15.
chopinbloc
Member
IF one lives in a state where suppressors are legal and IF one wants to pay an extra $650 plus $200 transfer tax and IF one wants to go through the hassle of all the nfa paperwork and IF one wants to wait the 8 months or so for the paperwork to clear and IF one wants to be on yet another federal list, then a suppressor sounds kinda fun. and even with a "high-power" rifle like the ar suppressors reduce sound quite a lot. the aac m4 2000 is advertised as reducing sound to about the level of a .22lr with standard ammo and with subsonic you get basically just action noise. 'course i can spit harder than a 50-70gr subsonic projectile.
Duke of Lawnchair
Member
Monumental and nearly revolutionary considering the latest trend on THR.
We tout "freedom", the Bill of Rights and all of that good stuff but heaven forbid if someone wants to buy certain doohickeys or outfit their guns the way they want to. That person will most definately be labeled as a "poser" for just excercising an inkling of their own free will.
Go figure.
OP
OP
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Mebbe so, Duke, but that wasn't the intent of my original query ... even if it may have come across that way. I truly am/was wondering if there were any specific "practical" benefits to the shorter barrel and long attachment. I'm cool with the "I like it" response.
That's why I didn't ask "Why does anybody need this combo?" As I often tell my spouse when contemplating the purchase of a new toy, "need has nothing to do with it!"
That's why I didn't ask "Why does anybody need this combo?" As I often tell my spouse when contemplating the purchase of a new toy, "need has nothing to do with it!"
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