Employees open carry at every range/LGS I go to around here (northern IL). This doesn't make sense to me. Is a gun store or range a high crime area? This notion runs counter to the pro-gun community's claim that more guns = safer society. If that's true, then the LGS/range should be the safest place in town.
Why are the employees at the LGS/Range armed?
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mgmorden
Member
This question strikes me as . . . not quite the most thought out thing in the world.
Guns only make an area safer if they're loaded and ready to use - afterall, an unloaded gun is just an off-balance club. The ones on display/for sale aren't loaded for obvious reasons. Therefore, the staff keep a loaded gun open carried in case it needs to be used.
It would make virtually no sense for the staff NOT to be armed. You don't want a large cache of weapons sitting there being protected only by good intentions.
Guns only make an area safer if they're loaded and ready to use - afterall, an unloaded gun is just an off-balance club. The ones on display/for sale aren't loaded for obvious reasons. Therefore, the staff keep a loaded gun open carried in case it needs to be used.
It would make virtually no sense for the staff NOT to be armed. You don't want a large cache of weapons sitting there being protected only by good intentions.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Maybe something like this??
http://fox4kc.com/2015/01/13/follow...r-gun-shops-review-policies-take-precautions/
rc
http://fox4kc.com/2015/01/13/follow...r-gun-shops-review-policies-take-precautions/
rc
dogtown tom
Member
It does to me.....not much different than having an armed security guard/off duty LE on site.
Does an armed bank guard, armored car driver, etc not make sense either?
Probably not..........guess why that is?
Wait.......what?
You observed guns at a safe location.........how is that counter to "more guns=safer society"?
I think you answered your own question.
ivankerley
Member
huh?
you could have all the guns in the world crammed in there but without somebody to operate one it wouldnt deter much, a guns a tool, tool needs an operator to be effective.
gene
you could have all the guns in the world crammed in there but without somebody to operate one it wouldnt deter much, a guns a tool, tool needs an operator to be effective.
gene
From any owners or employees who have worked in this sort of job and OC'd, I am interested in what level of training was required/recommended and whether issues like liability and decision making were covered in talks with mgmt.
While arming bank guards and armored cars may have a similar purpose I get the feeling that (at least sometimes) the lgs/range doesn't provide much beyond the recommendation to carry.
While arming bank guards and armored cars may have a similar purpose I get the feeling that (at least sometimes) the lgs/range doesn't provide much beyond the recommendation to carry.
99% of people who work in gun stores are gun enthusiasts.....and seeing as gun stores are 1) private property and 2) gun "safe heavens".......why wouldnt you open carry?
i suspect they OC simply because they can, not necessarily because they feel they have to.
i suspect they OC simply because they can, not necessarily because they feel they have to.
ROAshooter
member
cuz they can
Snyper
Member
To maintain the element of surprise rather than making yourself on obvious target is one reason.
Another is most will carry concealed when not at work, so why change?
MilsurpShooter
Member
Well it's still a store, and still handles cash so...
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us/gun-robber-armed-with-bat/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us/gun-robber-armed-with-bat/
Plinkin' Logs
Member
I think I sort of understand what your saying. Why for example instead of just having the obligatory loaded shotgun behind the counter, do they feel the need to strap a iron to their side in an open carry fashion.
Of course a loaded shotgun/AR-15/etc is going to be just as good (actually better) within arm's reach at defending one's self from an attack then the sidearm they have strapped to them. Honestly I think part of it is "man-bling", or at a gunshop a chance to "demo" a product to the customers as well as making a political statement. At the same time, its always good practice to have a sidearm ready.
I do sort of understand the OP is getting at though. I have gone to a few shops were every employee is open carrying both a full-size and back up side arm. That does seem a tad excessive for the sake of "defense" when you have 5-6 employees all armed like that. I think in that case it was more about the statement, especially considering it was around the time of the October 2013 laws that went down here in Maryland.
Was sort of expecting someone to step out of the back room with a bandolier across his chest. That said I am all for owners protecting themselves and demoing, "man-blinging", etc, their products as much as they want, its their right.
I have also been to an shop owned by an older gentleman, who had every modern semi-auto you would expect up on the rack for sale, and nothing but a dusty old wood Remington 870 5+1 behind the counter for self-defense labeled "LOADED NOT FOR SALE" with a big orange sticker . It doesn't have to take an army.
Of course a loaded shotgun/AR-15/etc is going to be just as good (actually better) within arm's reach at defending one's self from an attack then the sidearm they have strapped to them. Honestly I think part of it is "man-bling", or at a gunshop a chance to "demo" a product to the customers as well as making a political statement. At the same time, its always good practice to have a sidearm ready.
I do sort of understand the OP is getting at though. I have gone to a few shops were every employee is open carrying both a full-size and back up side arm. That does seem a tad excessive for the sake of "defense" when you have 5-6 employees all armed like that. I think in that case it was more about the statement, especially considering it was around the time of the October 2013 laws that went down here in Maryland.
Was sort of expecting someone to step out of the back room with a bandolier across his chest
. That said I am all for owners protecting themselves and demoing, "man-blinging", etc, their products as much as they want, its their right.I have also been to an shop owned by an older gentleman, who had every modern semi-auto you would expect up on the rack for sale, and nothing but a dusty old wood Remington 870 5+1 behind the counter for self-defense labeled "LOADED NOT FOR SALE" with a big orange sticker . It doesn't have to take an army.
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
¿Que?
alexander45
Member
Yeah....... I'm calling troll on this one.
But any way guns arnt magic they don't do any thing to make a place safer unless some one can use it when needed
But any way guns arnt magic they don't do any thing to make a place safer unless some one can use it when needed
herrwalther
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Are bank guards armed? Most around here are. Why? Because when everyone is unarmed, someone can walk in with a knife and steal money. Why is a gun store armed? Because someone can walk in with a knife and steal firearms AND money. Every time I go into a gun store, I am armed and so are they. And we are very polite to each other because of that.
I have only been to one gun store that was "armed." Sure every employee was carrying, but close inspection shows all the weapons are unloaded. Paired with the giant sign at the entrance that forbids loaded weapons, including concealed. They don't see my business any longer.
I have only been to one gun store that was "armed." Sure every employee was carrying, but close inspection shows all the weapons are unloaded. Paired with the giant sign at the entrance that forbids loaded weapons, including concealed. They don't see my business any longer.
what element of surprise?....youre robbing a gun store, i dont think its a surprise to anyone that the staff would be armed...
why change?...well for one, no matter how comfortable of a CC holster you have...OC is FAR more comfortable, so if you are standing around all day in a gun store, i know ide OC if i could.
Sergei Mosin
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Gun store employees carrying guns - tonight at 11.
4thPointOfContact
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From having worked behind the counter at a range/gun store -conw said:
Competency with a firearm to a distance from one end of the store to the other on a man sized target and the ability to deflect/resist a gun grab as being in front of the counter is part of the job on a range.
No formal talks about liability or decision making as it's usually pretty obvious that when guns come out and are being pointed at you that a robbery is taking place; respond appropriately.
There Is no 'element of surprise'; it's not some thug waiting in the shadows to ambush a pedestrian. Stores are normally 'cased' before an attempt is made (we noticed this happening twice within 6 months where I worked). Anyone who robs a gun store thinking 'hey, maybe they won't have guns' deserves what he gets. Another reason is the same as why WallyWorld has a big monitor at the entry showing who's walking in the store, it demonstrates that there is security and acts as a deterrent.Snyper said:
As for why the employees openly carry loaded weapons and most stores do not allow customers to do so is because we're all a bit skittish about the guy looking for a new holster and who pulls out his pistol to see if it fits the new one without clearing it first (and without clearing with US that he's about to pull a firearm).
And then there's the guy that pulls a pistol out of the pistol rug and points it at my midsection complaining that the hammer is sticking out and won't go down ('cause you had the safety On, thank god, since the gun you just pointed at my belly was loaded.)
Or, the guys who come in carrying their new MAK/AR/Ruger-whatsis with a magazine inserted and the rifle not in a carrying case or slung. Employees are going to spread and hands are going to hover, sorry 'bout dat. You'll be politely asked, Once, to go outside and clear the weapon. You don't get a second chance, you get told to leave and not return.
Personally, I don't mind if you carry your holstered pistol in the store, as long as the action is locked back and there's no magazine in it. I figure that if you're a baddie the extra second or so it might take for you to load will give me a bit of warning to make sure I paid my health and life insurance that month. And if you're one of the 'good guys' with an unloaded and locked open firearm, I certainly hope that you can load and respond appropriately should the matter ever become a serious social situation.
MedWheeler
Member
This question would have never occurred to me..
Sure as hell sells a product.
I remember going to a store and the counter guy or salesmen or whatever they are had a glock hat, glock shirt and a glock holstered.
Believe it or not, he was up talking glocks and trying to sell glocks to everyone.
I think an oc'ed gun at a gunstore more as a uniform than a security precaution.
I remember going to a store and the counter guy or salesmen or whatever they are had a glock hat, glock shirt and a glock holstered.
Believe it or not, he was up talking glocks and trying to sell glocks to everyone.
I think an oc'ed gun at a gunstore more as a uniform than a security precaution.
So the general consensus here is "to deter robbery". That actually hadn't occurred to me, as gun stores rank fairly low on armed robbery frequency. If open carry is the reason for this, you'd think that convenience stores and gas stations would start to do the same since they're the #1 target. Most places employ a trained and armed security guard to protect against robbery. Arming all the employees seems to be a solution unique to the gun world, so I'm inclined to agree with Plinkin' Logs' "man bling" theory (#12) on this.
Previously, I had assumed that employees were armed to protect against the errant customer, as 4thPointOfContact sort of describes in #18.
herrwalther's account of a gun store where the employees were armed with unloaded weapons (#15) makes no sense to me whatsoever and smacks of bad store management.
Previously, I had assumed that employees were armed to protect against the errant customer, as 4thPointOfContact sort of describes in #18.
herrwalther's account of a gun store where the employees were armed with unloaded weapons (#15) makes no sense to me whatsoever and smacks of bad store management.
Nickel Plated
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Because most gun stores I've been to have a pretty long counter and the employees are constantly going from one end to the other to retrieve different guns or help different customers. As well as going the back room or onto the sales floor to help customers. A shotgun under the counter isn't going to do you much good unless you happen to be standing directly next to it when that junkie walks in the door. Because he won't give you the courtesy to go and get it.
So unless you want to stash shotguns all over the whole store at 5 foot intervals from eachother, a pistol on the hip is a much more convenient and effective way of being armed.
NapalmMan67
Member
Any business owner & employees may carry in their place of business (where legal). I've seen more than just LGS/Ranges in IL where they do. So it doesn't make sense to you they are looking to protect themselves/ their business interests?
And besides, carrying a gun is much easier than carring a cop on your hip for protection.
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And besides, carrying a gun is much easier than carring a cop on your hip for protection.
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bigleverman
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As a gun shop employee, I think its mainly because we are "gun guys", for lack of a better term. I carry almost everywhere I go, although I prefer concealed carry. I think it is also somewhat of a marketing tool, I mean the shops purpose is to sell firearms and I feel that it can help sell
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