Why aren't Girandonis widely made?

[4v50 Gary]

Why aren't replicas of the big bore Girandonis made today? You'd think there'd be a demand for big bore, repeatable airguns and that somebody could get a production line going.

 

[jmorris]

Any of these work for you? .357, 45 and 50 caliber…

https://www.airgundepot.com/large-pest-hunting-air-rifles.html

As far as actual designs go, they often follow manufacturing techniques and equipment, as well as development evolving the designs to either improve them or make them cheaper to make.

Think of how much designs on other things have changed over the same time period. The way we travel for instance. Makes the difference between modern and antique air rifles seem small, in comparison.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The advantage of the Girandoni is that it had a magazine tube adjacent to the barrel. The newer ones don't.

 

[1066]

I believe the Girandoni only fed balls using gravity.

 

[jmorris]

The advantage of the Girandoni is that it had a magazine tube adjacent to the barrel. The newer ones don't.

They have them that are magazine fed that I linked to, like the first one for example.



Under 4 feet long too, with moderator.



That’s pretty impressive energy too, 333 ft/lbs more than the Girardoni.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Sweet.

 

[Rule3]

I had never known about these so looked it up. Pretty amazing!!

 

[jmorris]

The most amazing part of it is the pump. Very high tech in the 1700’s.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks Rule3 for the video. I have seen several original Girandonis and know a fellow who made a reproduction. I'm thinking of making one myself but recentely acquired another style of of flintlock era airgun for which I am preparing an article for Muzzle Blasts magazine.

Girandoni's problem was the sheet iron for the air bladder. Some of the iron was pretty poor quality and only after costly labor was put into it could it then be learned whether the iron was good or not (if good it could be pumped up and if bad it blew).

 

[Remington1911]

I think they could be made. People remake many firearms from way back, sharps, muskets of various makes....that kind of thing.

I have a feeling that they just don't think the market is really there to justify it.

Not to go political, but if the left has its way I think you will see airguns really take off, more they they already have.....until the left learns that a 50cal from a "bb gun" is just as dangerous as from a powder gun. Personally I think they already know this with some of the laws you see around the world....england and 12ftlbs for example.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Beeman's article. https://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian airguns.htm

 

[Remington1911]

Beeman's article. https://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian airguns.htm

Cool article.

You always hear about these "hobby machinist" type guys making different things, steam engines being a hot thing. I look at your article and think.....you know I have a lathe I never learned how to really use, and a small mill....hmmmm.

 

[jmohme]

I would love to have a functional replica of a Giradoni, but as a collectable. Not a hunting rifle.

As for why they are not widely made today? Probably for the same reason that there are no Stagecoach dealers on the motor mile of car dealerships. They were replaced by more modern versions.

 

[4v50 Gary]

A Girandoni receiver is more of a mill operation than lathe. The only part that needs turning is the threads for the air reservoir. Yes, a barrel has to be turned down and that needs a lathe. I'm thinking of taking CNC at Trinidad so I can make it from a billet. Trying to figure out what brass or bronze ally to use and I'm working on contacting a guy in Southern California who made one.

 

[jmorris]

A Girandoni receiver is more of a mill operation than lathe. The only part that needs turning is the threads for the air reservoir. Yes, a barrel has to be turned down and that needs a lathe. I'm thinking of taking CNC at Trinidad so I can make it from a billet. Trying to figure out what brass or bronze ally to use and I'm working on contacting a guy in Southern California who made one.

Do you have blueprints or just winging it?

 

[1066]

I seem to recall that at one time there were rough castings available for the receiver and other brass parts.
The Girandoni (Really a development of the Joseph Lowenz air rifle) was far from the only one of these large bore airguns of that period, just the best know - partly because of the "Lewis and Clark" association and also the Austrian Army association.

Anyone wanting to delve a little deeper into the workings of these fascinating machine will be interested in this article
Air Rifle Hunter (daum.net)

 

[Remington1911]

I would love to have a functional replica of a Giradoni, but as a collectable. Not a hunting rifle.

As for why they are not widely made today? Probably for the same reason that there are no Stagecoach dealers on the motor mile of car dealerships. They were replaced by more modern versions.

I am not sure it is that, when you stop and think of the big bore air rifles there is not that much difference, just the spot where they hold the air. The multi shot is different, but works with round ball, many today use a plastic rotary type magazine.

I could see one being made, the air tank "changed" to look like a "normal" stock, but past that it really is basically the same, not hard to do in todays world with modern machine tools.

The power seems on par with some of the modern offerings, I think a modern version is real possible, just no money in it.

 

[1066]

One of the things that strikes me is that the Giradoni and others of the type are "low pressure/high volume" airguns. A modern PCP uses a little squirt of air at around 3,500 psi while the Giradoni type operate at around 800psi mark, this is about on par with CO2 pressure on a cool day. Obviously this was about the practical limit for pressure in both pumping and storing the air - I'm just surprised it works so well.

 

[Remington1911]

One of the things that strikes me is that the Giradoni and others of the type are "low pressure/high volume" airguns. A modern PCP uses a little squirt of air at around 3,500 psi while the Giradoni type operate at around 800psi mark, this is about on par with CO2 pressure on a cool day. Obviously this was about the practical limit for pressure in both pumping and storing the air - I'm just surprised it works so well.

I have a feeling it worked great when shown to the people with the money to buy them.....then after some time in the field the real truth started to come out, and it was moved to "sniper" units as someone pointed out in the thread. Also being used in a sporting area is very different then in the hands of the military......soldier proof is a thing, and I doubt this was it.

Still amazing it worked as well as it did, and as I have read they had some power as well.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Took the plans to the school and spoke with the CNC instructor during lunch. He said it could be done but would require the production of at least eight fixtures. If they had a four axis CNC, then probably only a couple. It would be easier to use a regular milling machine and hit things with a file OR to do a lost wax casting.

However, if a class were interested, he would have them make them as a group project (each student walks away with one). I told him if that were the case, I'd enroll back in school to do my bit and be part of recreating the Girandoni. We'll find out in the fall.

 

[1066]

"Lost wax" casting is so much easier now with the availability of home 3d printing. A quick YouTube trawl should find plenty of information.

 

[4v50 Gary]

You're right. I should look into that.

 

[jmorris]

Took the plans to the school and spoke with the CNC instructor during lunch. He said it could be done but would require the production of at least eight fixtures. If they had a four axis CNC, then probably only a couple. It would be easier to use a regular milling machine and hit things with a file…

Can you post the plans here?

 

[4v50 Gary]

No, they're long and there's the issue of copyright infringements and I don't own the copyright. Scheduled a meeting with the person at school to see what it takes to print a master that may be sent to a foundry for casting.

 

[jmorris]

Any idea where they came from?