Why buy a gun?

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abaddon

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So I've been shopping around for a .38 or .357 snub nose revolver for ccw. This will be my first gun. With the help of this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1430) I think I can get a good gun for under $300. That, plus the cost of a ccw in Washington, gets me to $360, which is approaching my limit because I am a poor college student.

My question is this. I also sponsor a child through Compassion International for $28 a month, which provides his food, medicine, and education. I could buy a gun and get a ccw for $360 or I could sponsor another child for a year. The reasons for buying a gun are as follows:

1) I could possibly have my life or someone else's threatened and having a gun could enable me to stop that from happening. This would be a very good thing.

2) It would be very fun to learn how to shoot this gun and could start me on a hobby that I would enjoy for years to come.

The reasons for sponsoring another child are as follows:

a) I could possibly save his/her life and enable him/her to get an education that could enable the child to possibly impact their country for the better. This would also be a very good thing.

b) It would be fun to get to know this child through writing letters, etc.

The way I see it, reason (a) outweighs reason (1) because it is much more likely that said child would die of starvation than it is that I would need to defend myself or someone else. And reason (b) seems to be about on par with reason (2). So why get a gun? I can't see any reason other than selfishness. Also, if this evolves into a hobby I could end up spending an additional $20-$30 a month on ammo. (I am not trying to insult those of you who spend lots of money on firearms, I don't know your situation and can't judge you for your spending practices. This thread is purely for my own conscience). Given these facts it seems to me that something as seemingly innocent as buying a gun is wrong. (of course this would apply to a lot of other things too). Am I missing something here? Are there other reasons to buy a gun that I haven't thought of?

Jeff
 
This is really a decision you have to make on your own. We all have different values, incomes and priorities.

If you're undecided and want to compromise, you could buy a Bulgarian Makarov for about $150 and sponsor a kid for six months! Arguably, a Mak is as effective and reliable as a .38 and it costs less.

Keith
 
Or, you could sell your computer, stop paying the monthly connection fees and use the computers at the library. Then you could afford a gun, ammo and multiple sponsorships.

If you don't have a gun and are robbed then your ability to sponsor anyone is impaired to a greater or lesser degree depending on how much they take from you. If you're killed, heaven forbid, then you are, of course, unable to continue sponsoring anyone - unless you and your estate planner have provided for it.

Only you know what your priorities and circumstances are.

John
 
It really is your decision, but what if you sponsor a second kid then get in a situation in which you desperately need a firearm and you don't have one? I like Keith's suggestion that you buy a Mak (or maybe a Bersa Thunder) and have the best of both worlds. Choose wisely.
 
So why get a gun? I can't see any reason other than selfishness.
Click to expand...
Your impulse to help others is commendable, but . . . at what point do YOU no longer deserve the fruits of YOUR labor?

Put it another way, if it's selfish for you to keep anything you've earned, then buying and owning a TV, radio, MP3 player, a CD collection, etc. when others are hungry is just as selfish as buying a firearm.
 
FYI- Most "Sponsor a Child" programs are scams or close to it. I've seen it first hand in my travels, unfortunately.
 
I'd like to STRONGLY second Ex-Doc's comment:
Most "Sponsor a Child" programs are scams or close to it.
Click to expand...
I lived in Africa for most of my life, and in many of the countries where these "sponsor-a-child" organizations claim to work, they're nowhere in sight! The only ones I know to do as they claim are World Vision and Caritas. All the rest (including some very well-known names) seem to milk off most of the money they receive into administrative and "other" expenses.

A Chicago newspaper did a wonderful exposé of this a few years ago, when one of their reporters signed up to sponsor a child, and in due course began receiving letters from the child. The reporter then flew out to the city (in Tanzania, IIRC) where the letters were purported to come from and demanded to see the child. Guess what? - no child!

If anybody wants to directly sponsor an individual, or donate to a worthwhile aid organization, contact me, and I'll put you in touch with organizations that really do what they claim to do. First rule with charities - suspect them! (As if our own American Red Cross hadn't proven this in spades after 9/11... :barf: )
 
Have you heard of the "Sponsor a Gun" program? You send $30 dollars a month. Get a photo of you sponsored gun. You can write letters to your sponsored gun, read replys from your gun about it's adventures, and for most within a year you can take it home. :D
 
Agreed on the scam deal

I remember seeing an exposé on those things. Upwards of 80% goes to "administrative costs". Something like having your local United Way area representative driving around in a new convertible Caddy.

I'd much rather donate to a "tangible" charity, like the homeless shelter in town. Better yet (and probably the most fun), volunteer at these places or do a canned food drive for them.

Any other charity money I donate goes through my church where at least I know every penny is spent wisely, domestic or foreign.
 
Charity begins at home.
If you are a self-confessed "starving college student",why would you
send money to somewhere else,when that money could be feeding and educating you?
Helping someone a million miles away is commendable,but at what cost to you.
The firearm can be like an insurance policy on your life.
I vote get the gun,ccw.Donate time at the homeless shelter.After graduation,
get job,donate time AND money to charity of your choice.
Saving the world is great but,start by saving yourself!:D

QuickDraw
 
So you want to help the children? Dontate clothes to your local church, itll do more good than sending $30 a month overseas. Ever participed in angel tree? Donated at the local food bank? Volenteered in a Big Brother program? Theres plenty of kids in your home country to worry about. "God already left Africa."
 
In my part of the world, criminals do not discriminate between nice and bad areas. Soccer moms beware.

Kenneth Lew
 
From the C I site:
Compassion has been involved in development work for over 50 years. During that time, we have tried various approaches to break the cycle of poverty in children's lives. We've seen that changed circumstances rarely change people's lives, while changed people inevitably change their circumstances.
Click to expand...
Given this mission statement I would think if a person were dedicated they could find local unpaid volunteer work to help others and cut out the middleman. For instance when I was in college I worked as a volunteer at an institution for mentally retarded adults. Didn't cost me anything but the gas money to get there and I do think it helped several folks, much more than writing a letter to a kid who can't read English.

Sorry, I deleted the Google HTML copy of the C I audit page because you can't put nested URL codes on this forum page. To look at it you can input "Compassion International"+audit+administrative costs into google then click on the view as html option. For some reason the original PDF files were removed from the original site.

Back to the primary question: Considering the religious context of the question perhaps a religious quote is the proper answer? (Luke 22:36) "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Consider that the sword was a weapon which was used for the common defence of the community and analogous to modern day pistols I think one's answer is self evident.
 
It comes down to a matter of priorities. Which is most important to you? There are many ways to save money to donate to charities. You can do without cable TV or internet access. You can have the minimum amount of car insurance needed by law and donate the remainder. You can ride a bicycle to work instead of driving. You can read books and newspapers at the library instead of buying them. You can get a second job.

Is it more important for you to have the means of defending yourself than it is sending money to a needy child? You could be killed by a robber tomorrow and the child possibly goes hungry. You could forgo the gun and someone could embezzle the money you donate before it reaches the child, so the child still goes hungry.

You might consider purchasing the gun and becoming a certified NRA instructor. You can then donate your time to teach others how to use firearms safely and properly. That alone could save more lives than donating money to sponsor a single child.
 
It truly is your decision to make. Sure the ability to defend yourself and in turn to increase the time you're on this earth to sponsor children in the future is increased, but there are children now that can us your help.
There are alot of inexpensive quality guns out here that will allow you to be secure & still financially able to fulfill your desire to help the less fortunate. Good luck, I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you ;)
 
thanks for the responses

Regarding the Makarov I don't think I would have the ability to carry very often if I couldn't pocket carry. I don't think I could pull that off with a mak.

My college pays the internet connection fees, I have no choice in the matter. Also, my computer is two years old and so out of date that I doubt I could get much for it. I figure with something like that, since it makes it so much easier to get homework done, it is a necessary thing for a college student.

Another wrinkle - I wouldn't be able to legally carry at school anyway.

About Compassion International -
When I was in High School youth group at church we sponsored a Haitian boy named Estondas. When the youth group went on a mission trip to Haiti we met him and his parents. Same kid. I "think" that we sponsored him through Compassion, but it could have been World Vision, I'll have to ask my old youth leader.

"if it's selfish for you to keep anything you've earned, then buying and owning a TV, radio, MP3 player, a CD collection, etc. when others are hungry is just as selfish as buying a firearm."

I've never bought a tv or mp3 player and probably never will for this reason (among others). Bottom line, I do extend this principle to the rest of my life, but there are some purchases that must be made in order to get through college, get a job, live, etc. Maybe a gun is one of those, maybe not.

Regarding the homeless shelter thing -
That's a noble thing to do too, but something to be done in addition to the other stuff too. I think one's whole life should be spent in this way, i.e. working in shelters, saving money to help others out, etc. This gun question is just one part of that bigger picture.

About the bigger picture, though, Quickdraw's post is getting me to thinking that I'm not looking at it. It's not just about the odds of me being attacked vs. the odds of that one child starving. It's also about the odds of me being attacked vs. the lives I can affect after i graduate from college and get a "real" job. This would seem to weigh in favor of getting a gun.

Luke 22:36 yes, I have seen that verse used in that way, but I don't think it applies here. Even if you take it to mean a literal sword the people Jesus was speaking to were about to start the Christian church in the middle of the Roman Empire. Much more dangerous than me taking the bus to Seattle to go to work.

Wow, this is a long post. Well thanks for the input, keep it coming. I haven't made up my mind yet.

Jeff
 
I'd have to agree with the "beware of scams" advice.
I too wanted to offer some assistance to the starving children of the world.
I decided to sponsor a child via a very well known christian organization.
I got a picture and was told I'd begin recieving letters to which I could reply.
I got the picture and soon after a letter. (pretty well written for a starving child in Africa)
Then I thought (since at the time I was making good money with Boeing) I'd sponsor a 2nd child.
And wouldn't you know it.. the picture and letter I recieved from this NEW child was a carbon copy of the previous one.
I wrote several letters trying to get to the bottom of it. To no avail.
I felt that I was being taken for my charitable contribution.

Then several years later I read a book I reccomend to all.
"Investment Biker" by Jim Rogers
He is a well known wallstreet master who in 1990-1992 traveled around the world on a motorcycle. (the first to ever get permission to travel across Siberia)
In his book he not only talks about the trip but gives his analysis of the world markets as he sees them in action.
(For all you liberal environmentalists out there, its a hard lesson. But he witnessed what we all know. Capitalism is the absolute best system for the environment. Read the book and you will see what I mean)
At any rate when he traveled through Africa. He described what the situation was like.
That basically all the money we give in aid. Never sees the people. The warlords take it and build billion dollar palaces.
Even the well intentioned church groups that send cloths would be suprised to see that they are never given to the children.


The reality of our world is harsh. You may have honorable intentions by giving money to these organizations. But I'd be willing to bet that most if not all of your donations go to either "administration costs" or are flat out taken up by the warlords that control the regions. And consequently you end up actually enabling the evil. Rather than relieving its effects.

You would be better off spending your time and money on children right there in your city.
And you would be serving your charitable intentions by properly arming yourself to ensure your survival. So you may continue the work.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking you by giving money to these organizations. Your heart is in the right place. I'd just caution you, as others have, to consider more direct methods to ensure that your hard earned money (remember you are selling your LIFE ENERGY hours for money) actually goes to truly help the children.
 
You have honorable intentions but with that attitude, why buy anything you need? There's always going to be someone that could use the money more -- it'll never change. It's important to take steps to protect yourself too or people like you won't be around to help these children. Where is it written that you can't save up for the gun -- $20 a week and continue to sponsor a child? Before long, you'll have the gun and in the meantime you can feel good about helping someone.:cool:
 
Anyone else find it interesting that someone with the username Abaddon is so concerned with doing charity work and helping others? Not flaming, just an interesting choice of name for someone concerned with helping others.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abaddon

A*bad"don\ ([.a]*b[a^]d"d[u^]n), n. [Heb. [=a]badd[=o]n destruction, abyss, fr. [=a]bad to be lost, to perish.] 1. The destroyer, or angel of the bottomless pit; -- the same as Apollyon and Asmodeus.

2. Hell; the bottomless pit. [Poetic]

destruction, the Hebrew name (equivalent to the Greek Apollyon, i.e., destroyer)
of "the angel of the bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:11). It is rendered "destruction"
in Job 28:22; 31:12; 26:6; Prov. 15:11; 27:20. In the last three of these
passages the Revised Version retains the word "Abaddon." We may regard this
word as a personification of the idea of destruction, or as sheol, the realm of
the dead.

With that said you can get a very good used gun for well under $300, check the gunshows for a Ruger Security Six, you should be able to find one for $200-250.

Also I agree with the others, while it's commendable that you want to help and sponsor a child in some third world country I think it would be better to do what you can to help in the US first.
 
veloce851

What organization was that? As I stated earlier, if Compassion is the same organization as the one my youth group used we at least know that the kid exists and was receiving our stuff. (The interpreter we used was not affiliated with the organization at all).

"with that attitude, why buy anything you need?"

The reason would be to be able to live and give more later. For example, I am paying a lot of money to go to college, but this education will enable me to make a lot more money in the future.

Regarding my username:

I used this name because I found it in the book of Revelation and i think it is a cool name. It means "destroyer" in Hebrew and I was not in any way implying anything demonic. It was simply a braggadocious way of saying I am capable of destoying things. Just like all the other usernames that imply the same thing, like nemesis for example (not a flame on nemesis).

Jeff
 
here's my 2 cents,

you can't sponser crap if your dead



and I can't spell

also, helping other people is a moral from religon (christianity). If you believe Jesus was the Christ, he did say in Luke 22:36 that a sword [gun] is more important than your cloak [clothing]
 
I don't usually chime on these kind of threads, but if you choose to sponsor a child, you are making a big mistake. Although it would probably be a good idea to get a firearm, it is definately a mistake to donate to an organization like the one you are considering. Ever since that movie About Schmidt came out people donations to these organizatiosn are skyrocketing, but a bunch of problems exist with these sort of programs, including the following:

-NGO involvement in humanitarian infrastrature development programs destroy all local markets for the same things they provide. These include food markets (local farmers can't compete with the foreign food, so the farmers end up joining the ranks of the refugees) and infrastructure initiatives (dams, schools, hospitals and roads are designed and built by foreigners using foreign material and labor, contracted with the companies that provide the best kickbacks). These sort of things bankrupt local firms. I don't have any sources on this at the moment, but if you want I can dig them up.

-The funds are extremely fungible and often end up in the wrong hands. Programs like the one you are considering are particularly bad because they are NGOs and have absolutely no one to be accountable to. A good source on this is here, it provides a fairly accurate mathematical model that describes how money diffuses out of humanitarian programs:
http://www.worldbank.org/html/dec/Publications/Workpapers/wps2000series/wps2092/wps2092.pdf

-Kickbacks: Most of the money in these programs goes to things like advertising to get more donations, payments to management, and huge payoffs to consultants. I would be surprised if any of your $28.00 a month goes to the child you are sponsoring...most of that money comes from European government grants and some American foreign aid programs that actually pay these organizations to do the work they advertise. You donate to pay people's bonses and for advertising expenses.

-The image of the 'starving African' is something used for marketing purposes. There are not large amounts of children in the African countries that these programs help .. where there are concentrations of them in refugee camps, programs by the U.N. are more than adequate to address the problems...footage you see on commercials is stock footage from the 1980s from the Sudan, Somolia, Ethiopia, and Eritrea because of a drought they experienced in these villages, and there are international programs that ensure situations like this don't happen again. This problem isn't as epidemic as people think.

A good place to start on this subject is a book called "The Road to Hell" by Michael Marin, it is a great introduction into the subject... but there is quite a bit of literature out there. You should educate yourself on the matter before you make a decision. The best thing you could do is probably donate to Jubilee or some other debt relief organization, to help elimate the petrodollar loans to these countries in the 1970s.
 
My responsibility is myself. If I don't have enough respect for myself then I cannot be there for others. And others darn sure won't care about me. So I CCW, I train and practice. I ain't worth much to my mom If I'm dead due to stupidity or compassion on my part.

I don't give money to any organization I can't see, or touch for myself. Many charities use guilt, pull at heartstrings, or damn you to hell if you don't give. Police orgs, Tel-evanligists, blood...

I walk into my local Children's Hospital once a year, I know people there, so it's not hard for me find, or be told of kid in need. I may buy a wig for a teenage girl with Cancer, I may buy a toy for a burn victim, I may do any number of things. I get to hand it to the child. NO % to finance any staff. Plus I get a kick out of disrupting the unit when I bring water pistols, cake and ice cream. ( disrupt ha, me, the nurses and docs have more fun than the kids).
 
It is your call.
Having said that, I would not be without a gun, period.
I commend you on your commitment to help others, but you have to be capable of taking care of yourself first.
 
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