Why buying a rifle/pistol at 18 should be legal: 15-Year-Old Fatally Shoots Man Choking Her Mother

[Aim1]

So, obviously this story is about a 15 year old but it goes to show that even a 15 year old can use a pistol to defend themselves and others. Very tragic but if she hadn't her mother maybe dead right now. I believe that if you can serve and die in the military than you are an adult and should enjoy all the rights of an adult such as drinking a beer, smoking, and being able to purchase rifles and pistols. After the horrible Parkland shooting many stated that the age to purchase a firearm should be raised to 21 years old.

By making the age of being able to purchase a pistol or rifle to 21 you have a lot of college age women who would not be able to protect themselves. Many people say that people under 21 years old aren't mature enough to purchase a weapon or be able to wield it as it could be used against them. This story proves otherwise.


From the article:

"Deputies also pointed out that Kelley was a felon who maintained possession of firearms and even carried one on his person, although he was legally barred from doing so.

Kelley had at least two “active domestic violence protection orders” at the time he was killed. Both orders were tied to women in Indiana and Ohio."

So, the law didn't stop this bad guy from terrorizing this family but it could have stopped this girl from doing it if she had been 18 and wanted to own her own pistol for safety.




https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/13/15-year-old-fatally-shoots-man-choking-mother/

15-Year-Old Fatally Shoots Man Choking Her Mother

By AWR Hawkins 13 Aug 2018

A 15-year-old girl in Forest City, North Carolina, shot and killed a man last week while he was choking her mother.

The Rutherford County District Attorney’s office has already ruled the 15-year-old was justified in shooting Steven Kelley, her mother’s boyfriend, and will face no charges.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Personally I don’t have a dog in the fight.
I do think we need to decide what age a person is an adult, by that I mean if you’re old enough to vote then you should be old enough for all other legal activities. IMHO voting is our most important right. Therefore it requires a level of maturity to exercise this right responsibly.

Sadly the loons in Maryland who think 18 year olds aren’t mature enough to buy a beer, or 16 year old to drive have decided that 16 year old are mature enough to vote.

I find this nothing but partisan insanity for the reasons above.

So while I don’t care what we decide, In the case of Maryland, I don’t see them having it both ways. I’m sure they will scream 16 year olds should be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights. They’ll claim they’re not mature enough to own a gun. Yet they’ll give them the right to pick our representatives to make our laws.

I guess this is a long way of saying if the voting age is 18 then 18 year olds should be able to own a gun. If we as a society disagree then change the age to 21 and make it that. Unfortunately I don’t see this resolved in a logical way. In fact I see the only actions occurring like what we’re seeing in Va where our rights are under attack and one more seat lost to the left and we’ll have CA style gun laws if Gov Ralph and our anti gun AG have their way

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Knee jerk reactions are never good!

 

[George P]

Many people say that people under 21 years old aren't mature enough to purchase a weapon or be able to wield it as it could be used against them

Change "purchase a weapon" to vote, and it is even scarier! And yet we allow 18 year olds to join the military and fire weapons of all sorts.
The problem with trying to determine that "magical age" where suddenly an immature teen becomes a mature adult is that it can't be done. Some folks are mature enough at 13, some aren't at 30. Doesn't matter if you're talking guns, voting, alcohol, driving or anything that requires a keen sense of responsibility along with a dose of common sense.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Change "purchase a weapon" to vote, and it is even scarier! And yet we allow 18 year olds to join the military and fire weapons of all sorts.
The problem with trying to determine that "magical age" where suddenly an immature teen becomes a mature adult is that it can't be done. Some folks are mature enough at 13, some aren't at 30. Doesn't matter if you're talking guns, voting, alcohol, driving or anything that requires a keen sense of responsibility along with a dose of common sense.

I agree we can’t pick an age for each individual. But we pick what we feel is the best age representing the population as a whole.

 

[alsaqr]

Good on the girl and her brother.

Ladies in situations like this should realize these orders of protection "protect" nothing. i'm familiar with several cases where the police and courts failed to enforce orders of protection (restraining orders). A female classmate had a restraining order against a former boyfriend. Several violations of the restraining order were reported to the police and judge: Nothing was done to rein in the perp. Someone loaned the lady a S&W .357 revolver. She killed the guy after another home invasion.

IMO: The legal age to purchase a firearm is a states rights issue. Any person serving in the US military should be allowed to purchase any legal firearm regardless of age.

 

[somethingbenign]

Always bitter sweet to see a fatality in a defensive shooting. Wonder how that will affect the girls peace of mind going forward. On the other hand she walks aways from a very dangerous situation. Net positive but still gives me pause.

As far as the age thing goes we are never too young to be on the receiving end of violence. I'd argue that if any rights should be withheld by age, voting should be the last one to be held.

 

[GAF]

I remember owning a .22 rifle at 14. My friends and I went hunting . Back then (51 years ago) I thought we were we mature enough to own the firearm we had. Looking back all those years I would say I was and my friends were, but my thinking today is a little different. At 14 I was mature enough to know the potential dangers of a firearm. I knew the rules of safety and obeyed them, but I was not mature in all instances of the firearms use.

To add, Being young and maturity is not mutually exclusive, but a mixed bag.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Good on the girl and her brother.

IMO: The legal age to purchase a firearm is a states rights issue. Any person serving in the US military should be allowed to purchase any legal firearm regardless of age.

Normally I’d agree with you on the first part, but as we know there are way to many instances of states violating our Constitutional rights. So I feel we need to pick an age. IMHO 18 unless we change the voting age which isn’t likely as repealing the 21st would be virtually impossible.

As for the later, I’m 100% with you and will even go so far as to say I would like to see restrictions on our service members relaxed so they can protect themselves on bases and facilities.

 

[jonnyc]

Let's not confuse the two issues of "purchasing a firearm" and "owning/possessing" a firearm. They are different terms and dealt with differently.
As both a high school teacher and a gunshop employee, I have a slightly different POV on the "Old enough to fight......." concept. I recognize that all those fully armed and trained soldiers between 18 and 21 are under adult supervision while going about their armed military tasks. I don't have a fully-developed opinion on the subject yet, but the above is definitely one of the variables.

 

[AlexanderA]

What if instead of a 15-year-old, it had been a 7-year-old that used a gun to defend a family? Logically, we are saying that there should be no age limit at all for buying and owning a gun. Most people would not agree with that. There is a certain level of maturity that goes with gun ownership, and most 15-year-olds (the present incident notwithstanding) don't have that. We can quibble about whether the age for gun ownership should be 18 or should be 21, but there obviously has to be some reasonable age.

For those who say that there should be one uniform age for all incidents of adulthood (voting, serving in the military, buying alcohol, buying guns, etc.), I disagree. Different things have different potential harms. For example, if a 16-year-old votes in an election, that one vote will usually count for little, but ingraining civic-mindedness at an early age is a good thing. On the other hand, an immature 16-year-old with a gun can do irreversible harm.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

For those who say that there should be one uniform age for all incidents of adulthood (voting, serving in the military, buying alcohol, buying guns, etc.), I disagree. Different things have different potential harms. For example, if a 16-year-old votes in an election, that one vote will usually count for little, but ingraining civic-mindedness at an early age is a good thing. On the other hand, an immature 16-year-old with a gun can do irreversible harm.

I fully disagree with you as we’re seeing closer and closer elections, in Va we had a House of Delegates seat result in a tie. The winner was decided by a “drawing of lots” per state law. So that one vote is critical. I’ll add your attitude is why so many don’t vote. If the silent majority in the middle got out and voted in mass we’d see a very different political landscape.

Oh and that seat I mentioned was won by a GOP member which resulted in a one seat majority in the House of Delegates. Had it gone the other way, the leftist agenda to disarm Va would be law now.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I fail to see a correlation with the age of the kid that used a gun defensively and what the age should be for purchasing. There are several examples on the interest of this happening. What is the link?

Here a 12 year old girl shot an intruder in her house.
http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion

13 year old boy fends of 2 ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-shoots-burglar-wounds-second-suspect-n462006

11 year old boy kills an intruder
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...teenage-intruder-during-home-invasion-n421441

14 year old shot intruder, protected siblings
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/2...er-while-watching-three-younger-siblings.html

 

[old lady new shooter]

What if instead of a 15-year-old, it had been a 7-year-old that used a gun to defend a family? Logically, we are saying that there should be no age limit at all for buying and owning a gun. Most people would not agree with that. There is a certain level of maturity that goes with gun ownership, and most 15-year-olds (the present incident notwithstanding) don't have that. We can quibble about whether the age for gun ownership should be 18 or should be 21, but there obviously has to be some reasonable age.

For those who say that there should be one uniform age for all incidents of adulthood (voting, serving in the military, buying alcohol, buying guns, etc.), I disagree. Different things have different potential harms. For example, if a 16-year-old votes in an election, that one vote will usually count for little, but ingraining civic-mindedness at an early age is a good thing. On the other hand, an immature 16-year-old with a gun can do irreversible harm.

The girl does not appear to have been the owner of the gun, rather the gun was in the home (presumably owned by the mother). I say her mother raised her right.

There was also a case a couple of years back where an 11-year old girl (I think she was 11, might have been 12) was home alone when someone broke in. The family thankfully had a plan for such a situation, which she followed. She took a shotgun (with which she was proficient, she already had her own hunting license) from the gun safe and went into a room with a closet, locked the door and stayed in the closet, weapon at the ready. The intruder broke into the room, but when he found her waiting with the shotgun pointing at him when he opened the closet door, he beat a hasty retreat.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I have to add that although it's sad to me that a child should have to experience killing someone, if doing so allows the child and/or family members to stay alive, obviously it's a good result.

 

[AlexanderA]

I fail to see a correlation with the age of the kid that used a gun defensively and what the age should be for purchasing.

Yes. The use of a gun, in extremis, by an underage kid for defensive purposes is an entirely separate issue from whether that same kid should be able to buy and own the gun on his own. I have no problem with having the gun in the home under responsible parental supervision.

The girl does not appear to have been the owner of the gun, rather the gun was in the home (presumably owned by the mother).

I agree. However, the thrust of the OP was to use this incident as an example as to why the age of purchase should be lowered. One thing doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

 

[Skgreen]

"One size does not fit all", yet we as a Society yearn for that level of simplicity.

 

[Sistema1927]

Prior to 1968 there was no age limitation on firearms purchasing. Heck, you could even mail order guns to be delivered to your home address without any age check. I kept my guns and ammo in my bedroom as a teenager, and took them out to go shooting without restrictions. I don't remember any school shootings in those days.

Something changed along the way.

 

[buck460XVR]

I have yet to see verification anywhere as to who the gun used in the shooting belonged to. One article said the victim had several firearms in the house even tho he was prohibited. Could be the girl shot him with his own gun. She also wounded her sister. If the OP is saying this incident justifies lowering the age to purchase a firearm, if it was indeed the victim's firearm, would that justify felons owning firearms. Could be because the victim broke the law and illegally possessed firearms is why the mother is still alive. Lots of scenarios here. Personally don't see an argument coming from it to justify much of anything other than teaching your children how to operate a firearm.

I think the age laws are not a big issue here. Age to purchase is not the same as age to possess and age to lawfully use. Even if the gun was illegally possessed, the girl was with her legal guardian and thus, from little I know, legal to use it.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I have yet to see verification anywhere as to who the gun used in the shooting belonged to. One article said the victim had several firearms in the house even tho he was prohibited. Could be the girl shot him with his own gun. She also wounded her sister. If the OP is saying this incident justifies lowering the age to purchase a firearm, if it was indeed the victim's firearm, would that justify felons owning firearms. Could be because the victim broke the law and illegally possessed firearms is why the mother is still alive. Lots of scenarios here. Personally don't see an argument coming from it to justify much of anything other than teaching your children how to operate a firearm.

I think the age laws are not a big issue here. Age to purchase is not the same as age to possess and age to lawfully use. Even if the gun was illegally possessed, the girl was with her legal guardian and thus, from little I know, legal to use it.

One article said the injury to the sister was caused by one of the rounds shot at the assailant fragmenting.

 

[Milt1]

If defending siblings and/or parents in the shooter's home, the age limit should be tossed. Doesn't matter if the defender is 16, 14, 11 or two years old they have a right to shoot in defense of their family members. Regarding the purchase of a firearm I think the reasonable age should be 16 (with parental approval) i.e., one or both parents should be present at time of purchase.

 

[George Dickel]

I fail to see a correlation with the age of the kid that used a gun defensively and what the age should be for purchasing. There are several examples on the interest of this happening. What is the link?

Here a 12 year old girl shot an intruder in her house.
http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion

13 year old boy fends of 2 ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-shoots-burglar-wounds-second-suspect-n462006

11 year old boy kills an intruder
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...teenage-intruder-during-home-invasion-n421441

14 year old shot intruder, protected siblings
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/2...er-while-watching-three-younger-siblings.html

 

[AlexanderA]

"One size does not fit all", yet we as a Society yearn for that level of simplicity.

Teenagers vary regarding their level of maturity. One 16-year-old may be perfectly sane and responsible with guns, while another 16-year-old may be totally irresponsible. Nevertheless, the average maturity increases with age, to some acceptable level at, say, 18 or 21 (the exact age isn't important for purposes of this discussion).

If we make allowance for this individual variation, and let teenagers purchase guns on a case-by-case basis (how would that be done? by a "teenager purchase permit"?) then we would have a situation analogous to "may issue" concealed carry. Some official would have to make the determination, using less-than-objective criteria. Social connections, the "good old boy" network, or simple old-fashioned bribery would enter the picture. Do we want to open the door to yet another avenue of corruption? A flawed, but fair, system like we have today would be preferable.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

The interesting thing to me is that this woman chose to fornicate with a violent felon in the same house with her kids. Did she expect good things to come of that?

He threatened everyone with a gun and fired shots on August 4, and this lady was still shacking with him on August 8, the day of the shooting.

Seems like a lot of crime stories contain the phrase "mother's boyfriend."

 

[Frank Ettin]

....I do think we need to decide what age a person is an adult, by that I mean if you’re old enough to vote then you should be old enough for all other legal activities. IMHO voting is our most important right. Therefore it requires a level of maturity to exercise this right responsibly....

I'm old enough to remember when the voting age was 21. Everyone who thinks that since we lowered the voting age to 18 we've seen an overall improvement in the quality and competence of our elected officials, and of government in general, please raise his (or her) hand.