Why Can't I Shoot Handguns Well?

[MCgunner]

My problem isn't just with pistols I own, but also with most any I have tried.

If you can't hit well with your 686, I'm sure it's you and not the guns.

Everyone else says it, but fundamentals, trigger control, breath control, concentrate on that front sight, proper stance. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Jam]

same problems here

I had the same problem with my glock 19 for the longest time till i changed the sites now its perfect i put hi-viz in the front and adjustable rears in and now i can hit were i aim ,Maybe you are not picking up the site picture as good as you think also make sure you dont cross your thumbs arms have to locked and you have lean forward slightly take 1 shot at a time very slow put the gun down after each shot .also let someone who has been shooting for many years try your gun and see were its going , i am far from a pro these all the things i had to do with help from alot of people it is super frustrateing and practice and practice and practice

most of all have fun
good luck

 

[Don Lu]

Maybe its me..but

Im a fairly new shooter, but ive gotten pretty good. Maybe im just not as good as I thought but, even with trigger control and proper sight alignment who really can get "tight" groups at 50 yrds with pistol or revolver not made for hunting . I think most people would miss an 8x11 piece of paper or a can at those distances. The hand gun is for defense in fairly close quarters from what understand not for shooting a squirrel from half a football field away. I think Jackal is being to hard on himself. someone made a basketball reference, heres another one. A good basketball shooter should be able to consistantly hit jumpshots between 10-18 ft from basket...the fact the he cannot regularly make 1/2 court shots does not make him a bad shooter..IMHO of course.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Jackal: you have a slew of comments and advice on this thread. Obviously you can't adhere to them all. If it is trigger control you will know because you shoot a rifle well. You will know if you need a .22 pistol or not. I fairly doubt it. If you shoot a rifle well I think you can shoot a pistol well. There are fundamentals to both. Line of sight for both.
When I taught marksmanship in the U.S. Army I always brought it back to the fundamentals. Jackal you know the fundamentals with shooting a rifle. Breathing control, trigger squeeze ect. Balance for the most part isn't one of them because most of the time you are shooting from a supported position and if you are not the rifle can actually help balance you when you are shooting. When it comes to a pistol that pistol won't help you one Iota. You the barrel or any part of the gun and you are completely off of the target.
The Officer Corps in the Army never used to let the enlisted guys watch them qualify because they had so much trouble trying to.
Shooting a pistol, once you get your skills to speed is a combination of sights and pointing "muscle memory". Your body just knows where to shoot. The key thing to remember is correct alignment between the target, your pistol and your eyes with your head in its natural position when you are firing. You need the balance and the consistancy with a pistol.
Make sure that your arms are almost fully extended, if you fully extend your arms then you will have a tendency to lean your head back.
Once you discover that hitting the target is easier with your noggin higher. You have to make cottin pickin sure that your noggin never drops again!
With enough practice your consistancy will become consistant enough. Learn to shoot single handed, Right handed and then single handed left.
I hope that this helps

 

[Jackal]

Wow, never thaught I'd get this much advice! I am thankful that my THR bretheren didn't ignore me. Seriously though, I'm gonna go out today and try some closer, unrested shooting and see how I do. I think I'll start at about 20ft this time and not 20 yards. I will try to post pics of my results tonight and see if I can apply the teachings of the THR gurus.

Sounds like I need to buy some .38spl in bulk.

 

[TimboKhan]

I suggest calling your shots, much like you would do with a rifle. That way, if the shot isn't clost to where you think it should be, you know that you can try something different. I have had to work pretty hard to become an average/slightly above average pistol shot and for me it boiled down to just a couple of things:

1. Trigger control, proper grip, good positioning.
2. Learning to focus on teh front sight and the front sight alone when I shoot. Every shot I take, I guarantee you I am repeating "front sight" in my head.
3. Slow, deliberate practice with a .22. I shot very slowly, making sure that each shot was as perfect as I could make it, and then I analyzed each shot I missed. I found that about 90% of the time, I could point to exactly what I missed be it that I rushed the shot, jerked the trigger or whatever. I shot a LOT of .22 rounds trying to get my skills up. I honestly don't think my skill level would be where it is today had I not shot a .22, because I just don't think I could have afforded it.

 

[Steve C]

Here is some of the best information regarding accurate pistol shooting available, and its free under Perfecting Technique at The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol.

Read the Army Marksmanship Trainnig manual and print out a copy of the "Wheel of Misfortune" on the Error Correction and Analysis. Practice the techniques of sight alignment and trigger control. Every pistol is shot with the same basic techniques regardless of caliber. Even though Bullseye is oriented to one hand shooting there is no change in basic technique of trigger control, sight alignment etc. when using 2 hands.

Get a .22 so you don't break the bank. Buy targets with scoring rings and shoot them at the distance they're designed to be shot at. Keep track of your scores so you can see if you are improving. I often see people shooting at targets designed for the 25 yds line at 7 to 10 yds away. There's an axiom is shooting of "aim large, hit large". At 7 to 10 yds get some 1" circle stick on targets and shoot at those. A common mistakes people make is looking at the target rather than the sights and looking at the holes as they're being made. Close range seems to agrivate this tendency.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Don't worry your not alone, I am still getting better. Lots of practice. Especially at home, dry fire. I also found a target that has information on what you are doing when you pull that trigger, jerking so on and so forth. I use it as a guide. I would suggest if you have a .22lr pistol train with that. .22lr is much better to start with because you can see what you are doing when you pull that trigger. Compensation for recoil is easy but if you cant hit the damn target.

Here are some tidbits:

1. Shoot with 1 hand
2. Concentrate on the front sight
3. Pull the trigger smoothly and dont jerk it
4. Aim at the six'O clock position on the target
5. There is no TARGET there is only your front sight and making sure its pointed down range.

 

[CornCod]

Relax

And of course, don't forget to have fun at the range. Take your time, relax and don't take it too seriously.

After a few weeks of shooting very well at the range, I had a lousy day this past Saturday. I could not hit the broad side of a barn. I was all "flinchy" and stressed from a wacky week at work. I just blasted 60 rounds and went home.

 

[45R]

Take a class on handgun shooting. I took my first class 1.5 years ago and I can routinely hit the A zone of an IPSC target at 25-30 yards all day long. 6-8" poppers are no problem. I think all gun owners owe it to themselves to take at least one class.

 

[Jackal]

Just got back in the house from shooting a couple revolvers at a measured 21ft and at a 8x11" paper with a 3" sticky-dot. This was un-supported, standing, 2 hand hold. The first revo is a 4" 586 and I fired 10rds of some old Aguila 158gr RN ammo. It seems to toss ammo to the left a little, but I do need to adjust the sights. When I purchased it, the rear sight was adjusted all the way to the right. I just adjusted the rear sight to center and started shooting and now I need to fine tune it. The second revo is a S&W .32long hand ejector that was my great-grandpa's. It's a little ugly from his daily carry, but it's in perfect functioning order. Too bad I never met him. Anyway, it did quite well putting six rounds of Federal Wadcutters (yes there is six rounds on the paper, two hit the same hole if you look closely) into a neat little group. I credit myself hitting the paper to all you guys that gave me good advice. I kept all the tips in mind and payed attention. Now, I just gotta try my CZ-52 and Phoenix HP22. Yes, I know the Phoenix is considered a SSN, but I just like it. I had a Buckmark 4", but sold it awhile back because it just didnt "feel" right. I'll post my results with the semi's soon.

EDIT: Just shot my semi's. I did not do so well with these. The HP-22 has a horrid trigger that never lets me know when it's gonna break. These are normal groups for me when using it.
The CZ-52 did respectable, and yes, I do know I flinch .

 

[Nickodemus]

I admit I did not read everyones posts.

This is the least work/best payoff method I can think to suggest. I would sit in a chair, and shoot with both hands resting on a sand bag. The distance of your target doesn't matter as long as you can see it well. Practice, focus on sight picture and trigger squeeze. The shorter sight radius of a pistol means you must sharply use that eye on the front sight. Also a slow and steady trigger pull will really help. Once you are able to perform on the bench then you can shoot unsupported. Right now it is just too much to put all together, it is not "natural" for you. Compensate that by individually working the bugs out of the basics, then try standing one handed.

For reading search the Army Marksmanship Unit Pistol Training Guide. It is free and has lots of good info.

 

[MD_Willington]

One thing I found was I'd start out okay, but then I'd get lazy and have to stop and re-focus on what I was doing. Using the diagnostic charts, I found I was jerking the trigger instead of squeezing off the rounds. Once re-focused I'd shoot better.

Another thing I found on a Sig Trailside I borrowed was for the most part if I shot with both hands I was off, what I tried for grins was single handed and it worked out better. One hand on my stomach or behind my back and my shooting hand with pistol straight out, hit everytime, not sure why but it just worked. I did find the grip to be uncomfortable, and that may have been a part of it.

MD

 

[orionengnr]

Always some good info here. I'm going to look into the head position thing. I know I developed a good finch by shooting 12 oz Scandium j-frames with .357 Mag ammo.

I sold the dern thing and bought a .22...two of them, actually. An S&W revolver and a Ruger MkII. Now when I go to the range I run 50-100 rounds of .22 and then shoot ~50 rounds of centerfire. I match the rimfire action type to the centerfire (If I'm shooting a centerfire revo, I start with the .22 revo; if I am shooting centerfire SA, start with the MkII).

My shooting is getting noticeably better. The occasional empty case in a cylinder to check for flinch (both in rim- and centerfire) is a good one too.

Keep at it.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

orionengnr a bird in hand is worth two in the bush but in your case its two birds in hand is worth more than one bird in the bush. Congrats on the good decision t o let go the scadium 357 and picking up those two pistols.

 

[TC-TX]

may I, too suggest - Training (with an instructor) and CORRECT Practice.

 

[cbxx]

Accurate shooting

What are the 4 most important thins to pay attention to when shooting?
1. Pay attention to what and where you want to shoot.
2. Control your breathing. Try exhailing slowing or hold your breath as you shoot but do it calmly until you learn to control your breathing. The best way is to be relaxed and exhail slowly
3. Squeeze the trigger with the end of your finger not the bend in your finger.
Line your arm up with you shooting eye unless you are shooting with eyes open.
It will come just relax, do not tense up, fire one shot at a time, try different things until you figure out what you might be doing wrong, then correct it, one thing at a time.

It will work

 

[Jackal]

Squeeze the trigger with the end of your finger not the bend in your finger.

I must say, this is almost an impossibility for me most of the time. Not one handgun I own fits my hand correctly. The reason is that my trigger finger is always too long and wraps around the trigger so far it touches the frame. The pic shows my meaning and is a good example. The P3AT is really hard for me for that reason. Actually, the only handguns that I have ever handled that really "fit" my hand was the Taurus 24/7 and my dad's (Drool) Wildey Presentation .45WM. As you can see, my fingers get a little cramped and my trigger finger hits my thumb while it's getting pinched between the trigger and frame

 

[JohnL2]

Shooting handguns is extremely difficult to master. More so than rifle shooting in my opinion.
I don't think you can actually "master" handguns at all. Just build a level of competence.
I remember my first time firing a handgun. It was a Taurus .380 automatic and I thought it would be easy. No. It definitely is an art. And good handgun shooters definitely have my awe and respect.
My NRA instructor said a lot of law enforcement people are marginal to lousy shots. He should know, his brother is a cop. So don't feel bad.
Just keep at it, and try to work on overcoming your idiosyncrocies.

 

[ta4]

For me, the culprit is my support hand. I can't shoot as fast one-handed, but I can shoot with more precision. I tend to squeeze the grip with the pad of my thumb with my support hand. :banghead:

 

[JohnKSa]

Jackal,

You may have to adjust your trigger finger position a bit rather than laying it flat alongside the right side of the gun.

Give it a bit of an arch outward so that the pad of the finger rests on the trigger. It's rare for a gun to be sized so that the trigger finger pad rests on the trigger correctly when the finger is laid flat alongside the gun.

 

[Reyn]

If you're thinking about anything but sight alignment and trigger control at the moment that the shot breaks, you might as well be doing something else.

Things not to think about while shooting:

1. Where the brass is going.
2. How the recoil is going to feel.
3. What the group will look like.
4. Why can't I make small groups?
5. (Pretty much anything other than sight alignment & trigger control.)

I shoot out to 70yds with my Glocks just to see how i can group. Ive shot several groups that people said cant be done with a Glock. I shoot a lot at 40yds which makes my 25yd qualifying easier. Not following the principles in the quote above is the reasons i have a bad day. To get the best groups your concentration has to be completely focused on keeping that front sight in the same place while the trigger is being squeezed. Dont worry about the target or that little bit of arc of movement. Focus on that front sight.That means if you "think" your focusing then you probably arent. Believe me thoughts can enter your head and break your concentration and you wont even realize its happening.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sounds stupid, but the best handgun group I've managed in a few years was shot while I whispered the words 'front sight' over and over until the trigger broke...

 

[razorburn]

Did you try the random empty cases in your revolver to check for a flinch? My first handgun groups were truly god-awful too. This coming from a background of rifles and archery. The cause was a chronic flinch. I didn't feel the flinch when shooting, and it wouldn't be there when dry-firing, but when I used the revolver technique, I detected it quickly. My hands would move downwards and to the left to try to counter the recoil. Groups looked like yours. Live practice was the only thing that helped. I dry-fired constantly, but it didn't help that much. My technique was perfect during dry firing, but would relapse into a flinch while doing live fire. When I was aware of it, I tried to control it, but using the same technique, I could tell I still had a significant flinch. Although I didn't feel it, and actually shooting wasn't unpleasant for me, apparently I was recoil sensitive with handguns. So I reduced recoil. I had an enormous 51 ounce ported .357 revolver, stuck a scope and mount onto it, and shot .38's out of it. It was probably weighing somewhere between 70-85 ounces, ported, and shooting shooting mild .38's. My first 5 shot group at 30 feet was under an inch. Moved onto shooting .357s, and got the hang of that. The key was learning to keep my grip consistent in pressure and hold, and not to fight the recoil. As the trigger breaks, my focus went to my grip and following through.

 

[shu]

A really nice thread!

Jackal, you might try the 'tips' pull-down at
http://www.mattburkett.com/.

And that itty-bitty thing in yr hand above? I'd not expect much of a group beyond 'reach-out-and-touch' distance. OK for self defense if it's an adequate caliber. For satisfying target shooting you'll need something that pretty much fills the hand and has enough heft to slow the recoil.