Why did a local gunsmith say this?

[Taurus 66]

This was awhile ago (2 years), but this just now comes to mind.

A gunsmith and I were briefly discussing FFLs one day and he told me flat out, "There's no such thing!" without any hesitation. I asked him if there was some way (any way) I could CCW legally across state lines, like into Pennsylvania. His reply: "You have a NY CCW permit, just go to PA and pay $10.00 to the nearest State Police barracks, and they will issue you a small sales receipt which is good for carry from NY into PA."

I was skeptical at the time, but what would be the sense in debating this issue with the guy? It's apparent now years later that his information was disingenuous.

 

[Croyance]

What did he say doesn't exist? A FFL or National concealed carry?
The first exists, the second does not.

 

[Taurus 66]

What did he say doesn't exist? A FFL or National concealed carry?
The first exists, the second does not.

"FFL" is what he said doesn't exist. Anyone who thinks I'm making this up can PM me and I will give the phone number. Call for yourself if you have any suspicion I made this up. I will give the number through PM, but not here publicly, for obvious reasons.

With any hope, his talk about FFL and PA CCW permit for New Yorkers are still the same as it was a few years back.

 

[Taurus 66]

What did he say doesn't exist? A FFL or National concealed carry?
The first exists, the second does not.

So wait a minute here ... you're saying with an FFL, the person must open carry when travelling across the states?

 

[carebear]

FFL, licensed firearms dealers, obviously exist. Except for reciprocity, which in most cases isn't that old, there's no "national" CCW permit, you have to obey each state's laws when you cross the lines.

The only "national" firearms transport laws concern moving unloaded, secured weapons from point to point, and some states don't even accept they have to allow that.

 

[Taurus 66]

FFL, licensed firearms dealers, obviously exist.

Yes, the FFL dealers exist. Now I remember more about our discussion. What else comes to mind now is when I mentioned the holder of a valid FFL is legal to buy and use full automatic weapons. Am I correct in saying this?

I still don't understand the NYer buying a permit across the NY/PA state line. He's certainly a strange fella ... ' don't deal with him anymore needless to say.

 

[carebear]

FFL's come in different flavors.

I'm going to get this wrong in detail, but essentially a Class II or III dealer can buy and sell (and manufacture?) registered short-barrelled shotguns and rifles, suppressors, full-auto weapons and destructive devices where a "regular" (Class I?) FFL can just sell the non-NFA stuff.

 

[bogie]

Dude, your info is messed up...

Federal Firearms License: Required to be a dealer in firearms. Does not convey any other qualities... No carry, no machineguns (that's a separate dealie), etc.

Machinegun "license" is actually a tax stamp. They're pretty.

Some FFLs are releated to machineguns - manufacturing, dealing, etc. - I think these are referred to as "special occupational taxes" and tend to be pretty stiff.

 

[farscott]

From the ATF website on FFL types.

Type 01 -


DEALER in firearms other than destructive devices.
(includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

Fee:

$ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
$ 90.00 on renewal.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 02 -


PAWNBROKER in firearms other than destructive devices.
(includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

Fee:

$ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
$ 90.00 on renewal.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 03 -


COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS.
(pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and it's purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. It is NOT a license to buy and sell curios and relics.

18 U.S.C 923(b)

Fee:

$ 30.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 CR (5310.16)


Type 06 -


MANUFACTURER OF AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS
other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(C)

Fee:
$ 30.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 07 -


MANUFACTURER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(B)

Fee:
$ 150 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 08 -


IMPORTER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices
or AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS other than destructive devices, or ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition.

NOTE: Importers of handguns and rifles MUST register with ATF under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. Contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch at (202) 927-8320 for further information on registration.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(B)

Fee:
$ 150.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 09 -


DEALER IN DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(A)

Fee:
$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 10 -


MANUFACTURER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION
FOR DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(A)

Fee:
$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)


Type 11 -


IMPORTER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION FOR
DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(A)

Fee:
$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.

Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)



Dealers in NFA items also have to pay an SOT (special occupational tax). Individuals owning NFA weapons pay a tax, either $5 or $200, when submitting a Form 4 to transfer the weapon to their possession. No FFL addresses concealed carry.

 

[DragonFire]

You can't just drive into PA from NY and get a permit.

There are a few counties where you can apply for a PA permit based on your NY permit (well maybe all of them in theory, but a few are more accepting of it). There's at least one where you can do it by mail.

If you go to packing.org there some good info on all of this.

 

[Igloodude]

This was awhile ago (2 years), but this just now comes to mind.

A gunsmith and I were briefly discussing FFLs one day and he told me flat out, "There's no such thing!" without any hesitation. I asked him if there was some way (any way) I could CCW legally across state lines, like into Pennsylvania. His reply: "You have a NY CCW permit, just go to PA and pay $10.00 to the nearest State Police barracks, and they will issue you a small sales receipt which is good for carry from NY into PA."

I was skeptical at the time, but what would be the sense in debating this issue with the guy? It's apparent now years later that his information was disingenuous.

Well, it would be worth debating him on it (or sending him to packing.org) if only so that the newbie he talks to next week might not get bad info from him.

 

[carebear]

Huh. I always thought the Class III referred to the FFL itself.

When you want to buy an MG or suppressor you go through a "Class III dealer". That must be convenient shorthand, I guess the proper way to say it then would be a "dealer in Class III items". With the "class" relating to the NFA item itself, not the license.

 

[farscott]

Huh. I always thought the Class III referred to the FFL itself.

It does (sorta). The Class 3 nomenclature deals with the SOT class of the FFL dealing with NFA weapons. Once again, from the ATF web site.

SPECIAL (OCCUPATIONAL) TAX RATES UNDER THE NFA CLASS OF ANNUAL TAXPAYER FEE

1 Importer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $1000.00
2 Manufacturer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $1000.00
3 Dealer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00 [emphasis added]
4 Importer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00 REDUCED*
5 Manufacturer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00 REDUCED

 

[taliv]

is the SOT only $500 now?? i thought it was $1000

 

[Jim K]

If that gunsmith is doing it professionally, he better not only know what an FFL is but he better have one. A person who charges for gun work must have at least a Type 1 FFL.

Jim

 

[RyanM]

Centre county is the only one listed on Packing for getting a non-resident permit. http://county.centreconnect.org/211.htm Cost is $19 just like for residents.

 

[Croyance]

The only "national" firearms transport laws concern moving unloaded, secured weapons from point to point, and some states don't even accept they have to allow that.

Well the courts recognize it if it comes to that. You must be making your way through and out though. No side trip in state to visit your Aunt. Otherwise you have to conform to all the local laws.

Taurus 66, others have answered for me. Carry and FFL are two different animals. You want national CCW for yourself? Become a Federal Marshal.