someguy2800
Member
Keep shooting till you have 20 shots on the paper. You just might find you have about 16 fliers.
Why do I get so many of these?
- Thread starter CptnAwesome
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Toprudder
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Nature Boy
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Awhile back I petitioned the forum to make the official group size 4 shots but no one listened to me.
Nature Boy
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I wonder how often our flyers fly into the center of the group?
Or, when you say to yourself, “dang, I pulled that one”, but when you look it’s with the rest of your shots. How often do we exclude those?
someguy2800
Member
Did you notice that the two “groups” are not in the same place relative to the bullseye’s? What would it look like if you laid those two over each other?
higgite
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This ^^^
One "flyer" is high and one is low. Overlap the two groups and you get one group with no flyers.
I also think it depends on the accuracy of the firearm. my AR's, i am happy with 10 shots in 1.5" and don't seem to have too bad of a problem getting that. to determine accuracy I need to shoot more rounds in a group because they are spread enough that it is hard to get a feel for what the gun likes.
with my PRS gun, i am unhappy with anything over 1" I recently tested my load against a new primer, a Fed 210m instead of the usual CCI BR2. 8 shots from 43.5g to 45g of varget all grouped in a .75 ragged hole. this is normal for the rifle and it is immediately apparent when the load does not shoot well.
I then shot 3x3 shot groups at at 44g, 44.5g and 45g to get more chrono data and to see the grouping.
I ended with a 5 shot group of 44g to verify that I like that load.
the group average for the 3x3 was .6"
the 5 shot group was 1.2" with vertical spread because I screwed up my position and hurried before the range went cold. my 44g of varget load shoots (ES of less than 10fps with 25 shots on record) well enough that I am competitive in the local PRS match and only lose points because I compromise my position, make a mental error (shoot the wrong target) or make a bad wind call.
with my PRS gun, i am unhappy with anything over 1" I recently tested my load against a new primer, a Fed 210m instead of the usual CCI BR2. 8 shots from 43.5g to 45g of varget all grouped in a .75 ragged hole. this is normal for the rifle and it is immediately apparent when the load does not shoot well.
I then shot 3x3 shot groups at at 44g, 44.5g and 45g to get more chrono data and to see the grouping.
I ended with a 5 shot group of 44g to verify that I like that load.
the group average for the 3x3 was .6"
the 5 shot group was 1.2" with vertical spread because I screwed up my position and hurried before the range went cold. my 44g of varget load shoots (ES of less than 10fps with 25 shots on record) well enough that I am competitive in the local PRS match and only lose points because I compromise my position, make a mental error (shoot the wrong target) or make a bad wind call.
cougar1717
Member
Only because it hasn't been said yet....
"You didn't do your part. If you did do your part, it wasn't all day."
Signed,
Every firearm forum ever
"You didn't do your part. If you did do your part, it wasn't all day."
Signed,
Every firearm forum ever
I'm (repeatedly) guilty of just about every error than can be made.
I'm getting better though,,,
Had my first ever 'one ragged hole' experience just the other day.
9 mm Beretta PX4 / 124 gr Extreme RN / 3.7 Sport Pistol
1 target / 7 yds / 30 minutes / 120 rounds,,,
I'm getting better though,,,
Had my first ever 'one ragged hole' experience just the other day.
9 mm Beretta PX4 / 124 gr Extreme RN / 3.7 Sport Pistol
1 target / 7 yds / 30 minutes / 120 rounds,,,
Engineer1911
member
Put your butt on the bench, chamber 1 round & fire, cycle the bolt, chamber round & fire. Repeat for 4 rounds, but don't feed ammo from mag, feed from open bolt position 1 round at a time.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: Have some one else use the spotting scope. Your job is to consistently shoot 4 rounds without looking at group size, focus only on the target. When I follow this method, I usually shoot my smallest groups.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: Have some one else use the spotting scope. Your job is to consistently shoot 4 rounds without looking at group size, focus only on the target. When I follow this method, I usually shoot my smallest groups.
OP
OP
CptnAwesome
Member
Yeah those were two totally different loads.
OP
OP
CptnAwesome
Member
I haven't tried factory ammo, it's a new rifle. Copper fouling may be coming into play after about 30rds...
I have found loads that shoot 1" or less consistently in it though. Just seems to me that if the rifle doesn't like the load they should be scattered more. But I'm anything but an expert
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I have a rifle that doubles.
If I shot three I would think there was a flier about a half inch out, ruining my one hole group and embarrassing me and my half inch rifle.
Then for, statistical measures, I shot two ten shot groups. Two here, two here, two here, two over there and two right here.
I discovered that I owned a ten shot three quarter inch rifle. Still a remarkable feat, and pride reinstated, I now use ten as the mark. For target, non-hunting firearms.
Shooting is fun, keep going. Conversely, stack the three shot targets.
If I shot three I would think there was a flier about a half inch out, ruining my one hole group and embarrassing me and my half inch rifle.
Then for, statistical measures, I shot two ten shot groups. Two here, two here, two here, two over there and two right here.
I discovered that I owned a ten shot three quarter inch rifle. Still a remarkable feat, and pride reinstated, I now use ten as the mark. For target, non-hunting firearms.
Shooting is fun, keep going. Conversely, stack the three shot targets.
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LUCKYDAWG13
Member
I had a Encore pistol barrel that would get bad copper fouling when it was new I used this https://www.brownells.com/gun-clean...mbedding-bore-cleaning-compound-prod1160.aspx it seemed to help with the new barrel or maybe it was just from shooting more anyway good luck
spitballer
Member
A reduced load might group better in a new bbl with fresh tooling marks.
Erief0g
Member
Is it me? Dunno.
My S&W 629 44 mag takes the first one or two shots out of a clean barrel as flyers. I've proven it to myself right or wrong. I always put three to five on paper before judging my ammo.
Perhaps it's normal but I've never had to do that with any other of my handguns
My S&W 629 44 mag takes the first one or two shots out of a clean barrel as flyers. I've proven it to myself right or wrong. I always put three to five on paper before judging my ammo.
Perhaps it's normal but I've never had to do that with any other of my handguns
On a few of my single shot pistols when I'm shooting for groups I will get two or three touching and then really concentrate for the next shot. I found I was gripping the pistol tighter trying to will the shot into the group. It always put the round under the others. Not sure about he rifles but when I shoot the few rifles I have I make sure my front bag and rear bag under the stock is always in the same place and try not to grip the stock any more than I have to to get the shot off.
Mike
Mike
Archie
Member
Two thoughts, not mutually exclusive.
I just read an article about this. Not all factory bullets are 'perfect'. They are within specifications, and will serve normally, but they are very minimally not perfect.
Second thought: Does the overall group size serve your purpose? The common deer has an eight (or so) inch 'target'. National Match Course (High Power Rifle) has a six minute of angle V (or X or whatever the heck it's called now-a-days) ring. Shooting bench rest? Not so well.
I'd fire three or four of those three shot groups, not all at once. Check the average. That is probably what you can expect all the time.
I just read an article about this. Not all factory bullets are 'perfect'. They are within specifications, and will serve normally, but they are very minimally not perfect.
Second thought: Does the overall group size serve your purpose? The common deer has an eight (or so) inch 'target'. National Match Course (High Power Rifle) has a six minute of angle V (or X or whatever the heck it's called now-a-days) ring. Shooting bench rest? Not so well.
I'd fire three or four of those three shot groups, not all at once. Check the average. That is probably what you can expect all the time.
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