Why do I want a pre-64 model 70?

[ktmmudd]

Here's the deal: I've got revolvers, semi-autos, shotguns, and some AR's. I now
want to get a good bolt action rifle. Are the early Winchesters that much better
than current offerings? This will probably be a .243 or there abouts for deer sized game and some light range work. So something newer or an older model 70, what do you say?

 

[Gordon]

Pre 64 .243 s demand a premium. Most .243 s were featherweights. A 90% or better .243 Featherweight intact will cost $1200-1400. It won't lose any value in the future however.
The Conn. produced Winchesters Classics are real good too and have controlled round feeding. .270 Winchester is another great cartridge to consider for your use also.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277504763

 

[dprice3844444]

They both will get the job done for years to come.all depends on how much cash ya got to spend

 

[mshootnit]

I would look hard at one of the current Winchesters if you want one, they are very nice.

If you want a real nice bolt action get a Cooper repeater.
Mine would be a model 56 in 257 Weatherby.

http://www.cooperfirearms.com/

 

[ktmmudd]

While I'm no Richie Rich ( LOL ) if there is a definite advantage to getting a pre-64 rather
than a current or different rifle, I don't mind spending the cash.

 

[Driftertank]

Pre-'64 guns were built more expensively and to higher QC standards than post-'64 guns, but that doesn't mean the post-'64 guns are any less functional. Some of the manufacturing and materials will likely be a bit....less, stamped components in place of milled, less aesthetic finishing, etc. If you are collecting, the pre-'64 examples will always be worth a premium, but if you're just looking for a shooter, a post-'64 will still get the job done just fine.

As a side note, i'm TOLD that in the last decade, Winchester has been making an effort to more closely approximate the quality and finish of the pre-'64 guns. Can't confirm, i don't own any.

 

[sage5907]

There's a group of people, including me, that really like the Pre 64 Model 70 rifles. I've owned rifles with the Remington, Browning, Sako, FN Mauser and Weatherby names but none have been as good as the pre 64 Model 70. The overall quality is great, the safety is the best, the trigger is really good, action is very smooth, accuracy is excellent and resale is un-beatable. You can buy one today and sell it for more money next year. The production years 1951 through 1963 are what I look for. Super grade guns are out of reach for me so I look at standard grade only. Since more 30-06 rifles were made than any other caliber they are easier to find in 95 percent or better condition. Look at GunBroker for a good selection. BW

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

to answer your question, cause people want them and will pay dearly for them. simple answer to simple question.

 

[mshootnit]

ktmudd, if you go and handle a new production 243 winchester featherweight, I bet you will want to buy it. I have been buying and shooting rifles for over 20 years, and they really seem very nicely made to me, I don't think it gets much better. The new rifles don't have the same trigger as the old rifles, but the barrels, stocks, and actions are just as good as the pre-64. The stainless featherweight is something you couldn't get in the old rifles and looks very nice with the wood.

 

[Gordon]

1957 .243 Featherweight. It was so incredibly accurate after glass bedding it I put a 12x M8 custom shop Leupold on it in Warne Maxima QD mounts and rings. It shoots 85 Sierra Boattails into 1.5" at 200 yards.


My favorite Featherweight is my 1955 30-06 Burris Safari 1.5-6x in Warne Maxima QD mounts.


My .264 Mag Westerner with a Leupold 50MM Vari x 3 in WarneMaximamounts. This gun was given a complete makeover last year in a pre 64 Model 70 class and is a perfect plains game lazer.


My first Model 70 , a 1951 .270 rifle with a 4x Unertl scope full of Lee Dots and held solidly for 45 years in Maynard Bhueler mounts (the Warne Maximas are better BTW), It is now retired and a little worse for wear but still get 1.5" groups at 100 yards.


My current active duty Model 70 is a honed but very well made 1999 Stainless Classic in .270 WSM . VERY accurate and very deadly and takes the elements and knocks well. It only gets Super Premium factory ammo because it only goes hunting. It survived Africa 5 years ago and has never needed sighting in.

 

[Coltdriver]

I used to have a M70 in 30 06 made in 1949. Beautiful classic looks, nicely made.

But for what you would pay for a pre 64 model 70 today you could get something very nice like a Steyr or other high end rifle.

 

[sage5907]

My go to Model 70 is a 1953 standard grade with a monte carlo stock and a Leupold M3 3.5 to 10 power scope. It's a lucky rifle and hits everything I shoot at. I've carried it several hundred miles through rain, sleet & snow. I can load or unload blindfolded with gloves without dropping a cartridge. I can remove the bolt and wipe it down or remove the bolt shroud and firing pin and wipe it down blindfolded without dropping a part. The wood shows wear but the metal is still 98% Great rifle. BW

 

[Robert]

Have you seen, handled the new M70s? They are just as good, maybe better is some respects, as a Pre- 64 M70. Control round feed, floated barrels and light crisp triggers just to name a few of the features. The wood may not be as good but you can pick up a M70 Featherweight in .243 for $879.00 (MSRP) so you can figure to find it online or in a shop for less.

Now if you just want a pre-64, well there is nothing wrong with that. But if you want a hunting rifle rather than a collectible for the safe then I'd take a look at the new M70.

 

[Zeke/PA]

I presently own 6 pre-64 Model 70's, two of which are the Pre- War version.
Time was when, if you wanted a quality rifle, you either bought a Model 70 OR had a custom job built using a milsyrp action as a basis.
The sought after standard was to have a rifle built that "shot like a Model 70"
In truth, MOST M70's on the open market are really "deer rifles" that HAVE NOT seen any REAL abuse.
This past Summer at my local FFL a fellow was checking out a Pre-64 M70 in .308, thinking about buying it for his Grandson.
He was dubious but ME like a BIG Dummy talked him into buying it.
The rifle was used but by no means abused and it sported a 6X Kollmorgan glass.
Price? $350.00 + tax and NICS stuff.
My buddy has a 4 digit Pre-War .270 Winchester that, with reloads, will shoot dime size groups all day long.
You cannot go wrong with a Pre-64 Model 70.

 

[ktmmudd]

Looks like I have some more research to do. Thanks guys.

 

[Trick]

just a sugestion but I would go and handle both rifles, but for me there is nothing like the pre 64 mod. 70 featherweight in 243.
another option is to find one that needs a new barrel to get it at a better price afterall, all you are realy after is the action and wood
just something to think about

 

[dubya450]

I have three model 70's and they are hands down my favorite bolt rifle. I have a old 270 from the 50's my grandpa gave to me that I don't shoot anymore or hunt with and in the past year I've bought a new extreme weather in 308 and a supergrade in 300 winny. The new m70 (2008 and newer I think) ,in my opinion, is the best value for the money if you're using it for hunting and shooting. They are built just as well, if not better, than the one my grandpa passed down. If you're looking for a m70 to collect I'd say go with the pre 64 but if you want one to hunt and shoot regularly I'd get one of the new m70's. If i knew how to upload pics from my smart phone (yes I use my phone to surf the web, dint have a comp.) I'd put some up. My new supergrade is beautiful, the high polished blue and high grade walnut melts my heart lol. Either way you'll be happy buying either a pre 64 or one of the brand new ones. If/when you do pick one up, post pics! We'd all love to see it. Happy shootin!

 

[joed]

For me it's no contest, a new model 70. Why would I want to spend a fortune on a pre 64 that most likely is in need of a barrel when I could own one of the new models that offer just as much and they are new.

Problem with pre 64's is everyone thinks they have a gun that commands a huge chunk of money. The barrel is just about shot, the stock has scratches and screws have been buggered, and they want me to pay more then a new rifle?

 

[dubya450]

+1 joed

 

[lefteyedom]

The Pre-64 rifles have made allot of people allot of money except Winchester. Why? because of the cost of building basically a hand built custom 1898 Mauser in 1963 was cutting deeply into profits. Had CNC machinery been available in 1963 the labor cost could have been controlled without having to create short cuts and cost saving material changes. Gun writers flamed the issue for years, often never giving credit to the company for improvements made over the years.

Winchester kept improving the post-64 guns for 40 years. During that time they fixed most of the problems, except the reputation of the post 1964 rifles. The rifles that FN are manufacturing today are very good rifles. For $890 plus shipping and FFL you can have a new Model 70 in 270, which is as good of a hunting rifle as you could every want.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=278271358

As for an investment? that is simple get a pre-64, not because it is a better rifle but because there is a finite number of pre-64 rifles and a constant demand for them. Simple supple and demand. The demand is $2,379.00 for a pre-64 in 270 Win
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277216184

Another pre-64 Model 70 in 270 is starting at bids at $1299.99
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277449001

Just depends on what you want...

 

[dubya450]

Lefteyedom - basically the point I was getting at but you explained it much better lol.

+1

 

[Zeke/PA]

It's true that the Pre-War/Pre 64's are collectors items and my rifles for the most part reside in my gun safe.
For deer hunting lately, a Savage Edge in .30-'06 fills the bill, OR a Ruger #1.
For woods carry, my choice is a super accurate Marlin .336 in .35 Remington.
However, a hunting rifle WITH CARE can survive the "rigors" of the woods so every now and then my "go to" pre-war .30-'06 gets the nod.
The late great Jack O'Conner was upset when Winchester "redesigned" the Model 70 but I think Jack would like the present offerings being made by Fabrique Nationale.

 

[sage5907]

lefteyedom, your point about the $890 new Model 70 is not quite correct. The $121 that Winchester was charging for a 1952 standard grade rifle was higher when adjusted for inflation than the $890 that you refer to today. Winchester's quality control and craftsmanship was better than most of what you see today. The manufacturing shortcuts taken today take away from the residual value. Just get one of the new receivers wet and forget to wipe it down and see what it does to the surface. The old receiver is a masterpiece in design and endurance. Not only that, if a 1952 rifle was properly cared for it should be in excellent condition today. Most hunting rifles are not shot very much and that is why the command such a high price even if their stocks are worn. BW

 

[sage5907]

lefteyedom, I agree with what you said above except the part about Winchester not making a lot of money on selling their rifles. If a Model 70 standard grade owner bought a rifle in 1952 and sells it today for $890 he is selling it for what he paid for the rifle. If it is in excellent condition and brings $1,200 he hasn't made any money because it would take more than $1,200 to replace the rifle with a rifle of equal quality. When the pre 64 Model 70 was manufactured it was a work of art and the envy of the industry. Terms like machined from bar stock, forged, tightly bedded and hand crafted have been replaced by precision casting, investment casting, free floated and CNC but that has not improved the quality of the rifle. It is true that labor costs is what drove Winchester to abandon the pre 64 design and to look for alternative methods of production. Winchester went the way of General Motors (Generous Motors) but it didn't have the govt to bail them out. Development in the arms and ammunition industry has not stood still and the excellent powders, bullets, primers and optics that are available today have kept the 1952 rifles shooting as good as the production rifles today. BW

 

[CHALK22]

Soooo, like if I knew a spot where I could pick up a '53 .270 which seems to be in good condition, for under $900, that would be a good deal?