yesit'sloaded
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They already make the mini 14 which is a smaller version in .223 and 7.62x39. Why don't they just start making M14s. Or would that be an M1a1. Why not? I know there is a market for them.
Why does Ruger not go ahead and make a M-14
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skinewmexico
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Because they're afraid of what people might think if they started making an assault rifle. Bill Ruger supported the last AWB.
yesit'sloaded
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WTH? The mini-14 is the same gun just not in .308. It even comes in the evil caliber 7.62x39. Thats a sick joke of a thing if a company that makes a semi auto rifle in .223 and 7.62x39 is against "assault weapons".
They were going to-> the Ruger X-GI.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38911
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38911
Samuraigg
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I find this awesome, considering most new potential AWBs include the Mini 14 on the list of banned weapons.
MisterPX
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Would they be able to recoup tooling costs on production?
Not too likely right now, lack of 308, SA marketing, etc.
As far as Bill and the AWB, all I recall is that he was good to go on teh 10 round mag part.
Not too likely right now, lack of 308, SA marketing, etc.
As far as Bill and the AWB, all I recall is that he was good to go on teh 10 round mag part.
General Geoff
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The M14 market is pretty well covered. The market's not nearly as large as the AR-15 sect, and I can think of three manufacturers who are currently making rifles (Springfield Armory being my guess for largest in volume, by a long shot, and Fulton Armory and LRB Arms following). Costs to ramp up for production would probably take well over a decade to pay off, assuming they made a weapon of comparable quality to existing M14 clones and offered it at a reasonable price.
yongxingfreesty
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Bill Ruger, same guy that said all you need is 10 rounds.
Spiggy
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coincidentally, SB1022 comes to mind...
Detritus
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Bill Ruger was a great gun designer, and he knew how to deflect scurity and criticism from his product with a well timed BS political statement /business descision. his statements about 10rd mags and the famous "no man needs a pistol smaller than a canned ham" comment fall into this category.
Ruger didn't really "support the AWB" but he could read the 10 foot high writing on the wall and knew dang well one was coming. so he got out ahead of the thing and made statements to make it seem to the politicians that he was 'not as unreasonable about things as his competitors"
he knew realisticly that with a very little bit of forethought and planning production wise that the Mini-14/30 could transition into and survive during an AWB, with little to no interuption or loss of profit.
So why SHOULDN'T he milk that fact for all it's worth.
in other words Bill Ruger was a businessman, not a politican or lobbyist. and made the aforementioned statements b/c they made good buisness sense.
Welcome to capitalism.
Now as to the OP
As MP510 noted Ruger DID make a .308 sized version of the Mini-14 the X-GI, it never went into production b/c it was even MORE inaccurate than the Mini (forget "minute of pieplate" think "minute of barn door"). And since after a considerable amount of testing, the R&D Dept couldn't solve the accuracy problems in a satisfactory manner, a decision was made to not sell a model with a known and possibly unsolvable problem.
Bill Ruger may have been a buisnessman, but to stab everyone with a vested interest in firearms and the CONSTITUTION in the back for money was inexcuseable. If the internet was as commonplace then as it is today Ruger would be out of buisness as surely as Zumbo. Now about Ruger M-14s, M14/M1A are usually more expensive than any off the rack firearm. People expect Springfield quality accuracy or better from M14/M1As. Ruger just can not meet those expectations and won't try. They stick with a known seller.
From my understanding the Mini-14 is not a direct descendant of the M14, but instead a mixture of the M14 and the M1 Carbine. The XG1 was developed but never entered into production. A lot of reasons for this have been postulated, but as others have said the market for M14 clones is already covered. For Ruger to produce a cheap clone of the M14 would most likely not do well since it would not live up to anyone's expectations. To do a M14 clone well is not something that can be done cheaply.
As to the image that producing an M14 clone would entail. Ruger has shied away from making guns that have the appearance of being military in nature. The Mini-14 and Mini-30 have been marketed to the civilian market as ranch rifles. Making a full-fledged clone of the M14 would not fit in with the corporate image that Ruger is trying to create for itself. Before people are too hard on Ruger, remember that one of the reasons that Marlin dropped the Camp Carbine series was that it did not fit in with the image that Marlin was trying convey. Could Ruger change their image and might they be in the process of doing so? I certainly hope so, I think they could do well to make more "militarized" rifles, and make a good bit of money. I am not sure if an M14 clone would be possible however, given the above reasons.
As to the image that producing an M14 clone would entail. Ruger has shied away from making guns that have the appearance of being military in nature. The Mini-14 and Mini-30 have been marketed to the civilian market as ranch rifles. Making a full-fledged clone of the M14 would not fit in with the corporate image that Ruger is trying to create for itself. Before people are too hard on Ruger, remember that one of the reasons that Marlin dropped the Camp Carbine series was that it did not fit in with the image that Marlin was trying convey. Could Ruger change their image and might they be in the process of doing so? I certainly hope so, I think they could do well to make more "militarized" rifles, and make a good bit of money. I am not sure if an M14 clone would be possible however, given the above reasons.
cbsbyte
Member
People consider Bill Ruger a great gun designer? Every gun he designed was just a copy of another firearm and poor one at that. Mini-14 is cross between the Grand and M14 action. Mark 1 pistol is an almost direct copy of a Japanese Nambu pistol. This guy really did not come up with many great designs. He is no John Browning.
Baron357
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Ruger may have been a good Businessman but he sold out every gun owner in this country. Go and buy a new mini-14 of 30 and what does it come with...a 5 round mag. That is all Ruger thinks us peons should get.
As for the OP, Ruger could not make a quality M14/M1A for any less then SA so there is no reason. Plus Ruger would probably make the mags proprietary and only 5 rounds unless you were LEO. NOBODY in their right mind would choose that over a nice Springfield.
As for the OP, Ruger could not make a quality M14/M1A for any less then SA so there is no reason. Plus Ruger would probably make the mags proprietary and only 5 rounds unless you were LEO. NOBODY in their right mind would choose that over a nice Springfield.
You have to remember that back in the day the Springfield M1A was a considerably cheaper weapon than it is now. I bought my first one back in the late 1980s on sale for the princely sum of $499.
Keep in mind that M14 surplus parts were plentiful and dirt cheap back then. Springfield could assemble guns using quality GI parts that the gubment was practically giving away. Ruger would have to compete with the M1A with added burden burden and expense of making all new parts. Someone would have to be on crack to buy the Ruger over the M1A, and Ruger likely figured that out.
Keep in mind that M14 surplus parts were plentiful and dirt cheap back then. Springfield could assemble guns using quality GI parts that the gubment was practically giving away. Ruger would have to compete with the M1A with added burden burden and expense of making all new parts. Someone would have to be on crack to buy the Ruger over the M1A, and Ruger likely figured that out.
yesit'sloaded
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I want my red label m14.
Jim Watson
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Jan Stevenson, then editing The Handgunner, Ltd. in England, said he got two separate letters from Ruger about their discontinuing the XGI project. One said that they had the action working but could not get acceptable accuracy; the other said that it was an accurate rifle but they could not get reliable function with the wide range of ammunition available.
He concluded that it was neither reliable or accurate and they gave up on it.
He concluded that it was neither reliable or accurate and they gave up on it.
armoredman
Member
Hmmm, all that new tooling they just did for the Mini-14, wonder if there is any interest in a new set for an XGI. Do remember, they guy who sold us out IS DEAD. Maybe his hiers would be more, "receptive", shall we say, to reviving this dream, and making it workable?
Baron357
Member
I suspect if that were true new Minis would have at least a 10 rd. mag. to go along with the 5 rounder and high cap mags would have been released to the public already. Maybe things will change...
Vitamin G
Member
Ruger will not, CAN NOT, make an M14/M1a platform. The gun simply does not have enough surface area for the warning labels that Ruger would want to put on such a fine weapon.
CajunBass
Member
Well the last time the Ruger board of directors called me and asked for my advice I told them................
Based on my personal experience with 3 Ruger products there's no way I'd ever purchase an M-14 made by them and that's before taking into consideration ole Bill's sell out of the people that buttered his bread.
Ruger could drop off the face of the planet this very second and I wouldn't shed a single tear over it. In fact it would probably generate a smile or two and might even make my day.
Ruger could drop off the face of the planet this very second and I wouldn't shed a single tear over it. In fact it would probably generate a smile or two and might even make my day.
M14 Market is covered
Ruger's success has evolved by noting gaps in the market and then filling the gaps with useful/reasonably priced products. So, between the Springfield Armory and NORINCO products - on a worldwide scale - the market is already well catered for.
Example - At the entry level a new NORINCO M305 (M14 clone/knockoff) can be purchased for approxmiately $450 US, with the Springfields dominating the high end of the market.
I expect that a revived XGI would likely run into the same problems of a crowded marketplace - Saiga, Remington, Browning, HK, and even Benelli have centerfire semi automatics available.
Ruger's success has evolved by noting gaps in the market and then filling the gaps with useful/reasonably priced products. So, between the Springfield Armory and NORINCO products - on a worldwide scale - the market is already well catered for.
Example - At the entry level a new NORINCO M305 (M14 clone/knockoff) can be purchased for approxmiately $450 US, with the Springfields dominating the high end of the market.
I expect that a revived XGI would likely run into the same problems of a crowded marketplace - Saiga, Remington, Browning, HK, and even Benelli have centerfire semi automatics available.
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