Why does S&W Faux "Case Harden" Their Retro Wheelguns?

[Cosmoline]

I noticed a number of the retro wheelguns from S&W produced recently have a faux color case hardening. And Tom's article suggests they're doing it again:

http://www.guntalk.com/site.php?pageID=15&newsID=9

My question is, WHY? I've owned and seen many vintage S&W wheelguns from their glory days, and I have yet to see one with the "case hardened" appearance of swirly lines. Moreover, that "Color case hardened" look was the result of a substandard process. Most PROPERLY case hardened firearms, such as Mosin-Nagant receivers, have no such patterns on them. So why are they doing this?

 

[mattf7184]

Because it looks good (at least to me).

 

[BigG]

How do you know it's faux? Do you mean it is painted on?

 

[Jim Watson]

Beats the dickens out of me. Historically, S&W has never case hardened anything but lockwork, frames were always blued or nickel plated. I think it just looks blotchy, even on guns that it is period correct for.

I don't know about "faux." Ruger Vaqueros are fake colored, but a lot of the other name brands have been sending guns to Turnbull for real color case hardening.

I don't know about "proper" case hardening. It is usually surmised that the first color case hardening job was an accident due to impurities in the quench, but it has been being done on purpose as a cosmetic feature for some centuries now. Considerably predating even the 1891 M-N.

 

[BigG]

Sure - the colors are desired. I had not see any S&Ws with colored receivers until the recent models, but Colt has been making theirs since the first with colored receivers. They have some level of bubbles in the water when the parts are quenched that way they cool at slightly different rates, making the colorful blotches.

 

[Owen]

Actually there are a couple of ways of getting the coloration.

Case hardening is a diffusion process. That is, when the gun is heat treated, is is covered in some material that the heat treater wants to be absorbed into the surface of the part. In the case of case hardening that material is usually carbon of some sort. There are metallurgists here that can provide exact details, but charcoal is common.

The blue parts of the color are iron oxides. (the same as traditional hot bluing). The method I am familiar with involves placing pieces of oil soaked lmaterial against the part, to provide oxygen to the surface. and to create the blue color.

I undeerstand there are literally hundreds of ways to do this.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Another "I dunno."

I think it was a massive merchandising error. I can't figure what particular market they were trying to reach.

How can S&W do a "reproduction" or "replica" of a "classic" revolver that THEY NEVER MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Before this tackiness, none of the hand ejector series were ever produced with color case hardened frames. The Combat Masterpiece (later model 15) always had a ribbed barrel, from the very first, and never a round butt, even when the latter would have made a lot of sense (the 2" barrel version.)

Oh well . . . .

Johnny

 

[Cosmoline]

How do you know it's faux? Do you mean it is painted on?

Because there's no way they'd actually release a case hardened revolver frame, and if they did do it they'd be using the more advanced methods without the impurities and uneven cooling that caused the color patterns in early examples.

I don't know about "faux." Ruger Vaqueros are fake colored, but a lot of the other name brands have been sending guns to Turnbull for real color case hardening.

It's important to remember the difference between "case hardened steel" and "color case hardening." The former is an old method of making cheap steel stronger, while the latter is a special treatment that gives the surface an "antiqued" look which resembles some of the earlier case hardened frames. The color case hardening process gives it a blotched pattern that reminds folks of the marks impurities left by uneven cooling way back in the mid 19th century when revolvers were made with case hardened frames. I believe they use primitive bone and leather to treat the surface and make it look antiqued. But in order to get a true case hardened frame, you must start out with soft steel and then add carbon and some other stuff to the surface to harden it. The outside layers are thereby made hard and strong, while the inside remains softer. The method used to be common, and remained popular for certain gun parts for many years. It allowed the builders to use lower quality steel. I believe it faded out of use even with gun parts with the advent of better alloys.

To my knowledge, you cannot take a modern cast or milled high-carbon steel part and case harden it. I don't know why you'd want to. But you can treat the surface to make it look like an antique case hardened steel that's been cooled unevenly. I think this makes sense when you want to restore a SAA or similar firearm from the 1870's or before. But for the famous S&W handguns of the 1890's, 1910's and beyond it's anachronistic and strange, unless you're just doing it to the hammer and other parts.

Sure - the colors are desired. I had not see any S&Ws with colored receivers until the recent models, but Colt has been making theirs since the first with colored receivers.

If they really wanted to make their retro wheelguns desireable, they'd spend the time giving their retro revolvers that fantastic, deep blue found on classic S&W wheelguns. But that's apparently very, very labor intensive and gives rise to hazmat waste that costs $$ to get rid of. So we're once again left with some marketing scheme to appeal to the "cowboy shooters."

 

[Owen]

There is no reason for them to avoid the impurities in the carbon source, because they are looking for the coloration.

Is it faux? I don't know, but there is no reason to assume it is. Color case hardening wasn't an accident of the process. It was always intentional, for the last few hundred years anyway.

 

[DogBonz]

they "faux" case harden

so you can have the old west look but still have the modern quality and strength.

 

[Cosmoline]

But show me a classic S&W revolver that had the swirls and patterns of a Colt on it. Even the old Schofields didn't have that pattern. The reproductions sometimes do, but the real ones have a faded blue patina or nickel. To the extent any swirls have appeared from under the fading blue, they're quite subtle and very, very different from the tie-dyed "Heritage" monstrosities S&W is turning out now.

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/smith-wesson-schofield-revolver.htm

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/11Schof.jpg

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/ot51/NM-557.jpg

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/ot51/NM-557.jpg

Moreover, there's no way you can justify tye-dying a Model 24! What the devil is this supposed to be?? Are you telling me they had Model 24's alongside Single Action Armies at old west gunfights?? The whole thing is an insult to the buying public. It looks wrong, and it *IS* wrong. Make the blue better, and ditch the tie dye.

 

[Third_Rail]

That's.... really ugly.

 

[XavierBreath]

Aw come on Cosmo......I kinda like mine.....
I've looked at the fake case hardening colors on the Beretta Stampede and the Vaquero. I've examined the real case hardened colors on S&W lockwork, on Colts and on Cimarron revolvers. I believe the S&W Heritage frames are real color case hardened steel. As stated in the Gun Blast article, the Heritage guns were supposedly done by Doug Turnbull. That is how S&W and Lew Horton advertised them. Turnbull doesn't fake color case hardening.

Here's my Model 15-9.


As far as why were they done that way.......why not? These guns have MIM lockwork, and they are not replicas of historic guns at all. Each model was available in standard blue, nickel or with the color case hardened frame. The choice was yours. Here's that Model 24 in nickel.

The solution here is simple. If you don't like the gun, don't buy it.

Photo of the Heritage guns in blue courtesy of SmithNut.

 

[Jim March]

I detest the whole concept of fake-color-case on any gun, even one like the New Vaq that more or less does imitate a real old-west design.

I still ended up buying one. Couldn't find stainless, and when I ran "the checkout" on the specimen I own it passed with flying colors. Shooting it later confirmed that it was a damned fine gun mechanically.

The original Ruger fake-color-case process on the large-frame Vaquero was more colorful than the one on my gun but complaints abounded that it *attracted* rust. Many ended up with home re-blue jobs of various sorts. When they came out with the mid-frame like my New Vaq they appear to have changed the process...despite a reasonable level of testing mine has resisted rust well. It's a smoky gray all over with almost no brown, red or blue in it.

Looks OK but nothing even close to authentic...not that I care about authenticity per se.

I wish Ruger had done it as a straight-up blue from the beginning. If this finish gives me the slightest sign of functional trouble it's coming off post-haste and getting something else...hell, I'm halfway considering Duracoat and a subdued yet borderline funky color...

 

[kungfuhippie]

tie-dye belongs on hippies, not guns.

To each his own, but I still get to say that gun looks ugly.

A man's gun comes in blue, nickle, or parkerized. Give the hippie gun to your little sister.

 

[Cosmoline]

I believe the S&W Heritage frames are real color case hardened steel. As stated in the Gun Blast article, the Heritage guns were supposedly done by Doug Turnbull. That is how S&W and Lew Horton advertised them. Turnbull doesn't fake color case hardening.

That's like saying it's real fake leather. Color case hardening is itself a fake. It tries to make modern steel look like mid-19th century case hardened steel. Whatever sense this might theoretically make with some SAA replica, it makes *NO* sense when you do it to early and mid-20th century classic revolvers. It's anachronistic. Which in itself isn't a fatal sin. But when the anachronism is both stupid and ugly, I'm afraid the line must be drawn.

The heritiage guns in blue makes it clear why S&W is resorting to gimics--THEY CAN'T DO GOOD BLUE ANYMORE! Look at that pale, washed out crud on there. I'd respect them if they did heritage guns with the same deep blue they used to put on every firearm they made. It's another reason why I own no three digit Smiths.

 

[Confederate]

Fugly Parts for Otherwise Beautiful Guns

The case hardened look of the triggers and hammers have always bothered me, but only on stainless guns. I don't know how Smith is doing it now, but back in the '80s they were using powdered steel and hardening the outer layers in what I think was a case hardened process. The only problem is that when gunsmiths removed the hardened exterior to hone the parts, there was nothing to prevent severe wear of the soft insides.

Meanwhile, the flashchromed hammers and triggers on stainless guns actually made for smoother actions, and at a time when stainless against stainless produced gritty surfaces.

In principle, the case hardened hammers and triggers should make for excellent parts because they're smooth and resistant to corrosion. Flashchroming was even better because the finish was even harder and far more attractive.

It's fine to say if you don't like it don't buy it, but Smith really ought to at least make flashchromed hammers and triggers available. For blue guns, I would definately opt for darkened black/blue finish that would match the gun.

 

[B36]

Well I guess we know where you stand Cosmo--and thanks, leaves more S&W for me

 

[Bullet Bob]

Xavier is right, S&W Heritage models have real case-coloring from Turnbull, and he will do yours for about $700.00. There's nothing fake about them, semantics aside.

I love 'em, glad so many of you don't. More for me!

 

[BigG]

OK - I get your point, Cosmo. Faux to you means "anachronistic" - not period correct. Faux to me and everybody else means "fake." The case hardening is actual, not fake on the S&Ws, butt ugly or no, but they do not represent reissues of classic designs.

The part I really object to is the round butts on those big N frames. Look pitiful.

BTW, don't notice the little drain hole on these models. Did they leave it off?

 

[Jim March]

BigG: I disagree with you on the round-butt. They look OK, but more importantly you can get wood or whatever material grips you want that duplicate the look and feel of squarebutt.

Once Hogue invented that concept, it was only a matter of time before S&W set up just one set of tooling for roundbutt to save money. And if they're going to cut corners financially, that's the sort of corner you want them cutting.

Ruger of course went even further with the GP100/SP101/SRH "stub-butt" allowing literally anything hand, paw or claw shaped. Kewl .

 

[BigG]

Heh - good point, Jim, about the universal butt shape, I mean.

Now I didn't much like the looks or feel of the huge target stocks S&W put on the large N frames SBs before, but I bet there would be a passel of whimpering would some of our vocal members actually shoot some of those N frames with the itsy bitsy RB stocks that look so retro.

The diamond wood target stocks pictured look better than the old coarse checkered target stocks to me.

Did S&W do away with the little drain hole by the cylinder release?

 

[Bullet Bob]

People are funny. I remember when it was semi-popular to pay a gunsmith to roundbutt your square framed S&W so that you had more of a choice in grips. Yet when S&W started doing it for us, they were panned. Here's one of those ugly Heritage models with Roy Fishpaw grips:



And, with the Heritage series you could get a 1917 with modern steel, and put some stag grips on if you had a mind too:

 

[Cosmoline]

The case hardening is actual, not fake on the S&Ws

The COLOR case hardening is real. But they're not using case hardened frames, with soft steel inside. That's what I mean by "faux" it's a cosmetic process, not a genunine way of making poor quality steel stronger. It's also anachronistic and stupid. And ugly. But I guess some folks like stupid, anachronistic and ugly revolvers with a cosmetic color case hardened frame.

 

[BigG]

I see also that the guns themselves are not made after the design of the originals. They have the little cast in cylinder stop instead of the old pressed in cylinder stop.

Why did they put the extra screw in the sideplate while leaving the other "improvements" intact?

As far as remakes of the originals, these guns are neither fish nor fowl and anachronistic as heck, however if they lack the Saf T Hammer lock, they are 100% nicer than if they have it. I think the color case hardening looks good, myself. Different strokes for different folks.