Why doesn't anyone make a 30-06 AR/MSR yet?

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kdunn

Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
177
Location
Texas
With all of the calibers popping up in the AR platform these days, why hasn't anyone introduced a 30-06 AR yet? I know Browning makes a BAR in 30-06 but that's still more of your "hunting rifle" than an AR/MSR. And Ohio Ordinance makes the HCAR (a modern take on the M1918 BAR), but that thing is nearly $5,000 and weighs a whopping 12 pounds bone stock.

The 30-06 is one of my favorite cartridges and it is an extremely popular round. It just makes me wonder why no one has produced it in the AR platform yet? I know I'd buy one in a heartbeat if someone put it out.
 
I think it'd be hard to make a carbine with the attributes of the AR series on a long-action case. People like AR's becasue they are handy, compact, soft shooting, economical, etc....sizing it up to a long action cartridge gets rid of many of the things people love about the rifle, for only a modest increase over the 7.62x51. That, IMO, is a primary reason why such a beast has not been created
 
LGS has the below in stock. Haven't really looked at as i am not interested.

NOREEN BAD NEWS .338 LAPUA SEMI-AUTO #150 1 $5,999.00
NOREEN BN-36 30-06 #198 2 $1,959.00
NOREEN BN-36 25-06/22" 1:10 TWIST A2 STOCK/PISTO 6 $1,799.00
NOREEN BN-36 270WIN/22" 1:10 TWIST A2 STOCK/PIST 1 $1,685.00
 
My local gun shop had an AR of some sort in .30-06 for sale a few months ago. I'm not sure what make/model.
 
Davek1977 said:
I think it'd be hard to make a carbine with the attributes of the AR series on a long-action case. People like AR's becasue they are handy, compact, soft shooting, economical, etc....sizing it up to a long action cartridge gets rid of many of the things people love about the rifle, for only a modest increase over the 7.62x51. That, IMO, is a primary reason why such a beast has not been created
Click to expand...


Well Nemo Arms makes their AR in a 300 Win Mag which is just a bit bigger than the 30-06 round and I've never seen a negative review on one of their guns so I think it's definitely a feasible option to have an AR in 30-06. I wonder if it's just because manufacturers are afraid a 30-06 AR will be overshadowed by all the .308 ARs already on the market...
 
Cobb Engineering had a whole line of long action ARs in the works. But they were bought out by Bushmaster and apparently relegated to supporting the existing lineup, and then Bushmaster was bought out by Cerberus/Remington who had an entirely different idea about what would sell.
 
With the price of a Noreeen, one could buy multiple .308 AR's. Again, I just don;t see there being a sustainable market for expensive, heavy ARS that only offer a modest gain over performance over something costing must less and much ore universally available. If someone could bring a 06 model that wasn't cost prohibitive, I can see there being a market. At current price levels though, most people are going to go the established route and spend 1/3 of the money and pick up a .308.
 
But still that's only one manufacturer making ARs in 30-06. With it being such a popular round, you'd think there would be more of a demand for something like this with ARs becoming more and more popular for hunting.
Click to expand...
Do you want a hunting rifle or an MSR? If you want a hunting rifle there's the Browning BAR. FN dropped the Winchester badged SXR because it didn't sell. In a semi-auto MSR 30-06 does nothing that .308 Win / 7.62 NATO can't do equally well. If a 30-06 MSR would sell FN would make the FNAR in 30-06 and not just .308. The .308 and .30-06 use the same bolt face with only a slight difference in action length. So, if they would sell, all the .308 AR makers would have one of the major forges making slightly longer uppers and lowers, and MagPul, ASC, or C Products making slightly longer mags so they could make 30-06 AR type rifles. But that isn't happening. Springfield Armory couldn't even sell new M1 Garands in the face of rising prices on the originals, but the Auto Ordnance M1 carbine is still in production.

So, I think it's reasonable to conclude that outside of USGI Garands there's just very little demand for semi-auto rifles in 30-06.
 
What I am discussing and what I would like to see is an MSR in 30-06 that would be a versatile weapon as the AR-15/AR-10. That way I could use it for messing around at the range as well as deer/hog hunting.

I just figured there would be more interest in this type of weapon since so many people hunt with the 30-06 cartridge and more and more people are hunting with MSR's these days
 
The issue is the length of the 30-06 cartridge. The reason that 308 exists was because the US Army wanted the same performance of a 30-06 ball round in a shorter cartridge, and the result of their research and experimentation was the 7.62x51, aka 308 Winchester.

The AR10 provides a platform for shooting the 308 Win chambering. Designing a gun to shoot 30-06 requires a 1/2" longer magwell and receiver (and allowing an attendant increased bolt travel) relative to the AR10, just so that you can shoot a round that is not markedly 'better' than the 308 round currently supported by the AR10-pattern rifles.

I just can't see anyone doing that.
 
Nothing is wrong with the .308, I will probably end up buying an AR-10 eventually. But I already have bolt guns in 30-06 and I have a ton of 30-06 ammo on hand and reload 30-06, so it is more a matter of convenience and my familiarity with 30-06 over .308.
 
With all of the calibers popping up in the AR platform these days, why hasn't anyone introduced a 30-06 AR yet?
The 30-06 is one of my favorite cartridges and it is an extremely popular round. It just makes me wonder why no one has produced it in the AR platform yet? I know I'd buy one in a heartbeat if someone put it out.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think you've answered your own question within this thread.
You say that you'd buy one in a heartbeat if someone made one, but you never even did a basic Google search to locate the Noreen?

Then when someone points out that one IS available, you act like you need multiple manufacturers producing multiple models before you'd want one.
What are you looking for, a rifle or a boutique?
I've heard a bit about these Noreen's also. But still that's only one manufacturer making ARs in 30-06. With it being such a popular round, you'd think there would be more of a demand for something like this with ARs becoming more and more popular for hunting.
Click to expand...
Armalite was pretty much the only game in town for .308 AR's for quite a while. When their product began to take off, other manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon.

I think there are probably a lot more people that think an '06 AR would be "cool", than there are people willing to actually put down their money.

The main advantage of the 30-06 over the .308 is in the ability to push the heaviest bullets with large charges of slow burning powder. That's not an optimal situation for a gas gun.
Sure, a manufacturer could tune their '06 AR to run with 240 grain bullets and IMR4350, but that'd probably cause problems for the 99.9% of owners that would be shooting WWB or Privi ammo most of the time.

If you want a "military style" rifle in 30-06 just get a Garand.
It is without doubt the toughest, most proven design of semi auto ever made in that caliber.
 
"Honestly, I think you've answered your own question within this thread.
You say that you'd buy one in a heartbeat if someone made one, but you never even did a basic Google search to locate the Noreen?

Then when someone points out that one IS available, you act like you need multiple manufacturers producing multiple models before you'd want one.
What are you looking for, a rifle or a boutique?"

Swampman,

I've done plenty of searches and all I've found was the Noreen manufacturer. However, I don't really like what they have to offer, so I would like there to be more manufacturers so that some competition and different products are available to consumers.

It's not that I think the 30-06 cartridge is necessarily "better," I know that two cartridges are very similar in effectiveness and use. I just prefer the -06 because it is more convenient for me since I have hundreds of rounds and reloading supplies for an -06. Most popular hunting cartridges have been assimilated into the AR platform, including the 300 Win Mag - which is longer than the -06, so I was just curious as to what other people were thinking or if it was a possibility for the future.

"If you want a "military style" rifle in 30-06 just get a Garand.
It is without doubt the toughest, most proven design of semi auto ever made in that caliber."

I also really like the Garand rifle and would like to own one, but I love the AR platform, which is why I would prefer the -06 in an AR over other semi-auto rifles.
 
It's not that I think the 30-06 cartridge is necessarily "better," I know that two cartridges are very similar in effectiveness and use. I just prefer the -06 because it is more convenient for me since I have hundreds of rounds and reloading supplies for an -06.
Click to expand...
If you have bullets, primers, and powder(s) for 30-06 all you need is brass and a set of small base dies to reload .308 for an AR.
Most popular hunting cartridges have been assimilated into the AR platform, including the 300 Win Mag - which is longer than the -06,
Click to expand...
Only by one manufacturer, or the same number of manufacturers as there are offering that style rifle in .30-06.
 
kdunn said:
Nothing is wrong with the .308, I will probably end up buying an AR-10 eventually. But I already have bolt guns in 30-06 and I have a ton of 30-06 ammo on hand and reload 30-06, so it is more a matter of convenience and my familiarity with 30-06 over .308.
Click to expand...
Going to be a lot cheaper to buy a set of .308 dies and some brass. .30-06 AR is always going to be an expensive boutique option. It just doesn't offer enough over the .308 to dictate a custom gun and mags to all but a few people. Probably why you see several .300WM but only one 06. If you're going to burn money you may as well step up a little more.
 
kdunn, I believe you are representative of a VERY small market that ultimately wouldn't sell well. The .308 can do anything the .30-06 can do in an AR platform with a 20" barrel (or shorter), so what's the incentive to make one? If someone is unsatisfied with the results of their .308 AR, they can go for a much bigger step up to .300 Win Mag in the Nemo. The performance of the .308 and .30-06 is just too close to justify the cost of completely redesigning a rifle to fit your preferred cartridge.
 
Cobb manufacturing did it in 2006 for the 100th anniversary of the .30-06 and I think they only built 100 of the anniversary editions.
That was the first I remember seeing it. Not my thing but is stood out when I saw it.

Once a rifle gets to certain size/weight I would just as soon shoot a bolt action. Price is a factor for me.

I could see a .30-06 AR out performing a Garand.
 
@ kdunn
You'll have to excuse me for not understanding what you meant.

You started the thread and called it:
Why doesn't anyone make a 30-06 AR/MSR yet?
Click to expand...

Then in your first post you asked:
why hasn't anyone introduced a 30-06 AR yet?
Click to expand...

Its been a few decades since my last English composition course, but unless the rules have changed a lot (along with the meaning of the indefinite pronoun"anyone"), I think I can be forgiven for not knowing that you were already aware there was a manufacturer making an AR pattern rifle in 30-06.

But then I'm a little "old school", and don't understand a lot these days.

Believe it or not, my Father was so old fashioned that he taught me (with the occasional aid of a snakeskin belt), that if I asked a question and got a respectful answer, the appropriate response for me to make was "Thank you", followed by additional questions and/or discussion.

Variations of, "I already knew that!" were not considered an appropriate response in his book and were likely to result in extended nonverbal communication via reptilian dermal material.
 
Swampman said:
@ kdunn
You'll have to excuse me for not understanding what you meant.

You started the thread and called it:


Then in your first post you asked:


Its been a few decades since my last English composition course, but unless the rules have changed a lot (along with the meaning of the indefinite pronoun"anyone"), I think I can be forgiven for not knowing that you were already aware there was a manufacturer making an AR pattern rifle in 30-06.

But then I'm a little "old school", and don't understand a lot these days.

Believe it or not, my Father was so old fashioned that he taught me (with the occasional aid of a snakeskin belt), that if I asked a question and got a respectful answer, the appropriate response for me to make was "Thank you", followed by additional questions and/or discussion.

Variations of, "I already knew that!" were not considered an appropriate response in his book and were likely to result in extended nonverbal communication via reptilian dermal material.
Click to expand...
Nothing I stated in my response to you was inappropriate or disrespectful in any way. I was simply letting you that I had done research on the subject and already knew of the manufacturer "Noreen," which I mentioned in an earlier post when they were first brought up. No reason to get your feelings hurt so easily over what you perceive as someone being rude on the internet...
 
Last edited:
hatt said:
Going to be a lot cheaper to buy a set of .308 dies and some brass. .30-06 AR is always going to be an expensive boutique option. It just doesn't offer enough over the .308 to dictate a custom gun and mags to all but a few people. Probably why you see several .300WM but only one 06. If you're going to burn money you may as well step up a little more.
Click to expand...
This is true, and I plan on eventually having an AR-10 and reloading .308 for it, but since I already have plenty of 30-06 ammo loaded up, I would just prefer to have an -06 AR first. But that is a good thought!
 
WNTFW said:
Cobb manufacturing did it in 2006 for the 100th anniversary of the .30-06 and I think they only built 100 of the anniversary editions.
That was the first I remember seeing it. Not my thing but is stood out when I saw it.

Once a rifle gets to certain size/weight I would just as soon shoot a bolt action. Price is a factor for me.

I could see a .30-06 AR out performing a Garand.
Click to expand...

I imagine those Cobb manufacturing ARs would cost a fortune if only 100 were made.

I also do not want a rifle that is huge and heavy. Which is why I don't think I would purchase Ohio Ordnances' HCAR even if the price were to come down to a reasonable level.

I also agree with you that a 30-06 AR would most likely outperform a Garand as well. (even though I love Garand's and other WWII weapons).
 
kdunn said:
I imagine those Cobb manufacturing ARs would cost a fortune if only 100 were made.

I also do not want a rifle that is huge and heavy. Which is why I don't think I would purchase Ohio Ordnances' HCAR even if the price were to come down to a reasonable level.

I also agree with you that a 30-06 AR would most likely outperform a Garand as well. (even though I love Garand's and other WWII weapons).
Click to expand...
I think kdunn nailed it. It's not surprising that the greatest diversity of semi-auto firearms map to the currently available military rounds. Other than those few rounds, the cost and volume figures just start to look bad.
And a long-action AR-style will likely end up being prohibitively bulky and heavy. People often complain about the AR10 and equivalent designs being a bit of a load. A long chamber equivalent will be worse.
So it's likely that such a design will remain a boutique item with a boutique price. It's just basic market dynamics.
B
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
.30-06 AR-15 upper
Replies
10
Views
2K
Brother in Arms
B
T
  • Locked
The .30-'06
Replies
6
Views
937
Sulaco
Sulaco
J
Want to make my AR10 a 300 WSM but I would love some guidance!
Replies
4
Views
207
rdnktrkr
rdnktrkr
L
  • Locked
Elk/Range rifle: 308 or 30-06?
2 3 4
Replies
85
Views
7K
Rob96
R
G
  • Locked
Recommend me a 30-06 hunting rifle?
2
Replies
45
Views
3K
offthepaper
O
Back
Top