We really should be doing more about re-opening the machine gun registry. I for one think its unacceptable that when I turn 21, if I move to another state, I can buy an MP5 sear that cost $4 to make for $10,000, or maybe an M249 for $70,000. I write or email my anti gun Michigan Senators about machine guns and other gun issues at least once a month, I am a member of the NRA, MUCC, and the Libertarian party. I try to do a lot to protect gun rights. I don’t understand why we now have a Republican controlled Congress and White House, yet us machine gun lovers are not collectively engaging in more grass roots agitation, like flooding every Senator with emails. We now have a fair chance to get our rights back, so why are the bulk of machine gun owners and supporters doing so little?
Why don't we do more about fighting the machine gun ban?
- Thread starter 1911JMB
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Sean Smith
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It is not politically feasable, bottom line. To use a bad analogy, it is kind of like a starving person demanding caviar, when they'll be lucky to get a ham sandwich.
Lone_Gunman
Member
This is politically not doable. There is just too much opposition to new machine guns from both political parties, law enforcement, and the population at large to make this happen.
We have had 5 yrs of Republican control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. Nothing has been repealed in that time. Nothing will be.
We have had 5 yrs of Republican control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. Nothing has been repealed in that time. Nothing will be.
Patience.
We need to get the Supreme Court to finally make a solid RKBA ruling. Then we can go crazy in striking down all these unconsitutional laws. According to Drudge, there will be two vacancies this term:
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2005/05/08/20050508_231800_flash3sco.htm
with the right judges, we'll be looking pretty good.
We need to get the Supreme Court to finally make a solid RKBA ruling. Then we can go crazy in striking down all these unconsitutional laws. According to Drudge, there will be two vacancies this term:
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2005/05/08/20050508_231800_flash3sco.htm
with the right judges, we'll be looking pretty good.
Sindawe
Member
Remember this fact if/when you go to the polls next year, and in 2008.
Ohen Cepel
Member
Sadly, I don't think it will ever happen or even really be opening talked about.
Laws like taxes very seldom, if ever go away (AWB, was an odd one designed that way or it would still be here).
How are you going to sell it to the majority of America? So many people are ignorant of the issues as they are, adding machine guns would probably loose all the fence sitters. I can't imagine a guy getting on the Senate floor and trying to sell soccer mom's the idea that we need more machine guns.
Not trying to rag on you. Just trying to point out the politcal suicide that it would be.
Laws like taxes very seldom, if ever go away (AWB, was an odd one designed that way or it would still be here).
How are you going to sell it to the majority of America? So many people are ignorant of the issues as they are, adding machine guns would probably loose all the fence sitters. I can't imagine a guy getting on the Senate floor and trying to sell soccer mom's the idea that we need more machine guns.
Not trying to rag on you. Just trying to point out the politcal suicide that it would be.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Rebar, there always seem to be one more thing the Republican Party's lap dogs say they need before the Republican Party can really change things.
During the Reagan and Bush the Elder's presidency they needed the House and Senate.
During Clinton's term they needed the presidency.
Now they need the Supreme Court.
The Republicans have control of all the legislative machinery they need to repeal any laws they want, regardless of the courts.
During the Reagan and Bush the Elder's presidency they needed the House and Senate.
During Clinton's term they needed the presidency.
Now they need the Supreme Court.
The Republicans have control of all the legislative machinery they need to repeal any laws they want, regardless of the courts.
And the alternative is.... what? A Kerry administration? A Hillary Presidency?
It's all fine and dandy to criticize the republicans, but if they weren't playing the political game, then we would have anti-RKBA zelots running the government right now. Getting the Supreme Court would be far more valuable then taking stands that would hand this country over to those who would impose UK/Australian gun confiscation. That's the reality.
30 cal slob
Member
We (machine gun afficianados) are the ugly step-children of gun owners.
It was the NRA who sold us out in 1986 (thank you J. Warren Cassidy, you gutless schmuck). You think the NRA will try to push for a repeal of the ban?
It was the NRA who sold us out in 1986 (thank you J. Warren Cassidy, you gutless schmuck). You think the NRA will try to push for a repeal of the ban?
Very few americans have any understanding of machine gun laws, and many think the AWB was a machine gun ban. Getting the word out on things like how the track record of civilians with registered machineguns is spotless, and what exactly people need to do to get a machine gun legally would be a good start.
By the way 30, no I don't think the NRA will do much for machine guns. In my time they never have, and I doubt they ever will. They have gained to much disrespect since the Clinton years and they probably think a push for full autos would take away what little ground they have left to stand on in the eyes of the liberal media.
By the way 30, no I don't think the NRA will do much for machine guns. In my time they never have, and I doubt they ever will. They have gained to much disrespect since the Clinton years and they probably think a push for full autos would take away what little ground they have left to stand on in the eyes of the liberal media.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Rebar, I am not talking about handing over the government to the Democrats.
I have voted Republican in every election since 1980. I am not a 3rd party proponent.
The Republican Party has consistently moved to the left through my lifetime. I don't think letting a bunch of liberal republicans pick the Supreme Court is much better than letting Democrats pick.
The party needs to move back to its conservative positions of 20-40 years ago.
I have no trust that the current Republican Party will make the right choices for Supreme Court.
If we keep blindly supporting the Republicans without demanding that the party fundamentally change, then in 20 more years, we will have the equivalent of a one-party system (we are already very close now).
I have voted Republican in every election since 1980. I am not a 3rd party proponent.
The Republican Party has consistently moved to the left through my lifetime. I don't think letting a bunch of liberal republicans pick the Supreme Court is much better than letting Democrats pick.
The party needs to move back to its conservative positions of 20-40 years ago.
I have no trust that the current Republican Party will make the right choices for Supreme Court.
If we keep blindly supporting the Republicans without demanding that the party fundamentally change, then in 20 more years, we will have the equivalent of a one-party system (we are already very close now).
Greg L
Member
It won't happen as long as politicians are involved 
.
TV ad: My opponent even voted to allow MACHINE GUNS out on the streets!!! Not just those eeevil assualt weapons but actual MACHINE GUNS.....
.TV ad: My opponent even voted to allow MACHINE GUNS out on the streets!!! Not just those eeevil assualt weapons but actual MACHINE GUNS.....
Incrimentalism.
That's how we'll win it all back.
First thing to do is open up the registration- keep the existing regulations but open the pool of weaponry available, so prices get driven down. Do it in a bill that gives LE personell more selections to choose from or whatever.
That's how we'll win it all back.
First thing to do is open up the registration- keep the existing regulations but open the pool of weaponry available, so prices get driven down. Do it in a bill that gives LE personell more selections to choose from or whatever.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I hope they push hard for strict constructionists. Conservative judges would be a huge asset I agree.
My point is though that they could reverse the 1986 law if they wanted at any time. They don't do it because it would not go over well for them politically.
My point is though that they could reverse the 1986 law if they wanted at any time. They don't do it because it would not go over well for them politically.
Waitone
Member
Are they? I see lots of fuss and feathers. I see no movement. I hear talk. I see no action.
A Bush promise is not that certain. I believe what a politician does, not what it says. I'll believe a constructionist made it to the bench when I can read decisions, not until then. To push for a constructionist implies republicans are acting from some kind of core believe in the abiding validity of the constitution. Instead we have Trent Lott playing the frat house president trying to broker a deal, exhibiting no evidence of any values worth fighting for.
The problem is republicans are playing pool to lose. They are interested in positioning themselves for the next time they lose power. That attitude will guarantee their failure. If Bush and his stooges can't give me and others a reason to vote FOR constitutional value, I'd just as soon for for the real socialists rather than imitation socialists like republicans.
At some point republicans are going to have to stand FOR something rather than AGAINST something else.
It might be almost immpossible to get machine gun rights back, but right now, MG lovers are for all intents and purposes getting paddled by the federal government and saying "thank you sir may I have another". I personaly will not settle for that.
rock jock
Member
Here's a clue: most people, including a lot of liberal politicians, think MG's are already illegal. Can you imagine Congress telling them that not only are they legal but they are going to drop their cost by 95%?
jefnvk
Member
You know what you need to do?
Every anti-gun bill that comes up, attach this to. New AWB comes up, throw this on. I'd trade bayonet lugs for full auto in a heartbeat.
Every anti-gun bill that comes up, attach this to. New AWB comes up, throw this on. I'd trade bayonet lugs for full auto in a heartbeat.
My theory about Liberals and machine guns is this, Liberals talk a lot about "common sense gun control". Common sense tells you that a category of firearm which was never once used by a civilian in the commission of a crime should be legal. But alas, politicians seem to be far to stupid for that type of thinking.
FNFiveSeven
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What about tricking congress into legalizing machine guns, you know, adding a repeal of the '86 ban as an amendment to some bill? Why not draft a 100 page long bill called the "2005 minority children's rights protection act" and throw the repeal into the fine print?
alan
Member
1911JMB:
The answer to your question might lie in the following. Have you ever heard the following? GUN OWNERS ARE THEIR OWN, WORST ENEMIES.
Just look at or listen to some who shoot those fancy shotguns knock handguns and even competition rifles. I personally have heard this rubbish, and it is a lot broader than my quick reference might indicate.
Others have noted the political problems inherent in doing away with the machingun ban, actually the entire structure, starting with the 1934 Act needs to be cleaned out, but that might never happen, unfortunately. These laws have not returned a nickles worth of value to the population, but I also doubt that I will live to see them repealed.
Perhaps that is why there is not more energy expended in the fight you mention, though perhaps what I mentioned is the answer. Honestly, I do not know.
The answer to your question might lie in the following. Have you ever heard the following? GUN OWNERS ARE THEIR OWN, WORST ENEMIES.
Just look at or listen to some who shoot those fancy shotguns knock handguns and even competition rifles. I personally have heard this rubbish, and it is a lot broader than my quick reference might indicate.
Others have noted the political problems inherent in doing away with the machingun ban, actually the entire structure, starting with the 1934 Act needs to be cleaned out, but that might never happen, unfortunately. These laws have not returned a nickles worth of value to the population, but I also doubt that I will live to see them repealed.
Perhaps that is why there is not more energy expended in the fight you mention, though perhaps what I mentioned is the answer. Honestly, I do not know.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Yep. I can't tell the Republicrats from the Democans even with a score card.
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