Why I'll never miss checking cases after tumbling ...

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Stealthfixr

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I do it anyway, and I usually throw out a case or two for wear and such, but today was a little different. These 9mm cases were fired from a semi-hot loading--not max--but close. In fact, one shot in particular that day seemed abnormal, and now I am wondering if it was the case on the left.

This was not shot from a Glock (some will assume), but rather my CZ 75BD. The CZ seems to handle high pressures very, very well. I think this is actually a case in point--the CZ is a strong pistol! I've slowly worked up some max and beyond max loads with it, and I have to work hard to even get any signs of abnormal pressure. These cases were on their third firing; hence the below max loading. Both are PMC cases. Bravo to CZ!

Anyway, for our viewing pleasure ...
 
I recently discovered yet another reason to carefully inspect your cases after tumbling. I was sizing a few hundred .45 Colt brass when I broke my decapping pin. In over 20 years of handloading I have only done this one other time. Of course I didn't have another one. An examination of the case revealed that another, smaller caliber case was inside the .45 Colt case. The kicker is the .45 Colt case was decapped. I suppose it is possible that I could have loaded it and never discovered the error until I fired it. Especially if I had been loading on a progressive loader. Actually the decapping pin wasn't broken, it was bent at a 90 degree angle and was still in the die. I have no idea how it decapped both cases.

Yeah, I get cases like the ones in the pictures now and then. As you found out it is nothing to get alarmed about.

Redding sent me a half dozen decapping pins free of charge. Of course I couldn't be satisfied with that so I ordered a new set of dies with the profile crimp die and the micrometer bullet seater for about $100.
 
Please don't thing I am trying to flame anyone here but why produce max+
loads.? Save your gun, hands, eyes and just move to a bigger caliber and
reduce that load to meet your needs. I have been loading over 35 years
and find "reduce loads" produce better accuracy in all guns. With the great
varity of calibers we have today no need for an over load.!
 
No flaming here--it's a good point wingman makes.

Here is how I arrived at this particular load for my CZ 75BD. I worked up loads slowly to find both the lowest powered and most accurate loads. In doing so, I found that the CZ 75BD seems to prefer higher powered loads for accuracy--I've found the same trend powder after powder--the difference was noticable. It also seems to prefer the 124gr weight bullets, and I use Berry's plated RN's with excellent results.

This particular load is under the powder company's published max (Accurate #7, in this case)--the max is 8.0gr, and this load is 7.8gr. With this load I can shoot-out the center of the target out with amazing accuracy. With #7, the felt recoil seems lower than other powders at higher loadings, so recoil is not much different than a low-medium load with another powder. Not many people seem to use AA#7, but it works very well for me--very consistent and predictable.

The most accurate low-power powder I've found is actually Titegroup. If I put 4.2gr under the same bullet, it does a very nice job--less and I get reliability/extraction issues with the 18# recoil spring (and, yes, I've got Wolff XP mag springs too). Also, the pistol has a higher power recoil spring (#18lbs) to accomodate the higher power. And, the CZ is a strong pistol! No flaming, please, but if the pistol in question were a Glock, I might not feel as comfortable pushing the upper limits--just my $0.02.

So, long story short, it works for me.
 
I too load for a 75b and find it likes pressure as much or more than velocity. I load a top load of Clays and it is just as accurate with the same bullet as a barking flame belcher load of Power Pistol but a full 300FPS+ lower in speed with the same bullet. The higher pressure loads are the ones it prefers IME. I have yet to find a powder it does not like when up near the top listings. Soft loads of Blue Dot or Power Pistol or Universal are terrible at the same speed as the Clays load.

If a gun wants pressure to function its' very best I feed it pressure. If it wants lollypop piffer loads I feed it lollypop piffer loads. The guys that load down everything they shoot are missing the boat completely in some cases.

BTW, try some Power Pistol in your 75, the fun-factor is quite high when lighting is a little dim.....
 
I've seen cases like that after a half dozen or so mild 38special reloads. I've not had a single case rupture or crack in my extremely hot 357mag loads, even after 3-4 reloads. There's more to it than simple pressure.

Chris
 
A firewall load isn't necessary to cause a case failure like this, Wingman.

I've had out of the box target loads for .32 Long and .38 Spl. do this.

I've had .38 Spl. cases with nearly 50 mild loadings do this.

A burn-through like this is rarely the result of a hot load, although hot loads can cause a weakened case to fail faster.

It's a flaw in the brass, an inclusion, a weak spot, an incipient crack, whatever...
 
It's a flaw in the brass, an inclusion, a weak spot, an incipient crack, whatever...
Click to expand...

True many time you will find poor quality brass(I believe product control is poor
in many products we buy now) brass can be damaged due to over stressing
during resizing, type of cleaner used, poor quality chambers, (especially In
some 38's handguns) however in near max or max loads as suggested by
the original poster it for sure increases the chance of finding the low quality
brass. Hot loads are unnecessary for accuracy, even for hunting, just by
picking the right rifle/hangun cal.

If your car runs 120mph is it necessary to run it that fast., I guess my feeling
is if you want a big boom buy a larger cal. gun.
 
Wingman,

I'm not talking low quality brass.

This happens with Federal, Winchester, Remington, S&B, Sako, etc.

Flaws in brass happen, even in the best quality brass.


As for whether or not someone wants to shoot maximum loads, that's THEIR preference.
 
Thanks for the photograph, eh?

I've always checked cases after belling rather than cleaning, although once in a great while, I spot a split case by touch just before resizing. I'll have to consider checking freshly cleaned cases.

In three decades of reloading, I can truthfully tell you I've never exceeded published maximum loads. I had the good fortune to look over a blown revolver a year or so before starting to load my own, and it made a believer of me.
 
A great reason for me not to use the case and bullet feeders. I get a last look at the brass before it goes on my progressive. Thanks for sharing.
 
Please don't thing I am trying to flame anyone here but why produce max+ loads.?
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes you need an extra 100 fps to punch through that tough paper.:D

But there is something cool about that big .454 BOOM!

I get my lead bullets from a local guy and he told me he doesn't understand why guys push max+ just to punch paper. He says sight the gun in with your hunting load, load up a few more for practice and load down to practice trigger control and gun handling. Makes sense to me.

Than again, we're guys and we're not the smartest animals. :)
 
Well since you asked, there are a number of reasons for loading max+ loads.
#1 There are those of us who enjoy shooting hot loads. Sport shooting is supposed to be done for our pleasure and if this is what pulls our chain then why should we do anything else ? I own a number of different firearms in a number of different calibers. There are times when I want to punch paper and concentrate on every detail of my technique. There are other times when I want to shoot max loads. This doesn't mean that I am going to let my shooting technique go, on the contrary, I am developing new technique in how to manage recoil while still maintaining accuracy. I have the option of choosing a gun or load that produces the results I want to achieve.
#2 What is to say that I am not developing a load for use in big game hunting or personal defense ? You may see me firing barn burner loads at paper and think, "Why is this clown firing such hot loads at paper ?". Well, I may be zeroing my hunting gun with the loads I am going to be using on the hunt. I may be working with various powders and bullets to develop a hunting load. I may be practicing to discover the trajectory of my hunting load. I may be practicing to get used to firing hot loads with the goal of using these loads in self defense or hunting. For all you know, these are the only hot loads I have fired all year and shot 100k mild cast bullet loads to refine my technique.
#3 Experimentation. There are those of us that enjoy the hobby of handloading and like to explore all avenues of the hobby. We might be trying to discover first hand what a case or primer looks like when it was exposed to an over-pressure load. We might be trying out a new slow burning powder to see if it is accurate or to see if it gives us the advertised velocities.
#4 We might actually do quite a bit of long range shooting where max loads are needed.
......................


Just because shooting hot loads doesn't pull your chain doesn't mean that there isn't a use for them or that we should adopt your ideas of the "right" way to shoot or handload.
 
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