Why is choosing a powder such a pain!

[Sturmcrow]

I recently picked up a 454 Casull lever action carbine. I plan to pair it with a Super Redhawk soon. I already reload for 10mm Auto, 9mm Luger, and a few rifle cartridges. I am looking for a powder or two that will give max loads in the 454, but download to 44 Mag type loads too. Being able to meter easily is a big issue, and that is my biggest frustration. The powder companies do not even seem to want to post what type (extruded, ball, flake, etc) they make, much less whether it meters easily. In the 10mm, I use 800X for my full power loads, and they rock, but that stuff meters like a walrus on acid. VERY UNPREDICTABLE! and therefore, not safe for max loads.

I like the AA powders for meterability, but they are hard to come by here, and now that I have a Chrony, I find they give much less velocity than I expected. I have a pound of lil gun that I just bought, and hope that it gives me what I desire for the 454. Would H110 have been a better choice? For the 9mm and 10mm, does Power Pistol meter well?

 

[454PB]

I own a Puma .454 lever gun. I also own 3 revolvers in .454 Casull.

The Lil'Gun is a great powder for your carbine, along with H-110, 296, and AA#9.

Some care has to be taken when "downloading" with these slow burning ball powders, but starting loads can safely equal .44 magnum level performance.

Personally, I like to use Bluedot for reduced loads in my Casulls.

 

[gamestalker]

H110 and 296 will deliver full house magnum performance and nothing else. They are not powders that can be down loaded to below minimum data. Load up some 454's or 44 magnum with either of those, and you''ll know when you touch one off, no doubt about it.

 

[918v]

Whas wrong with 2400?

 

[res7s]

It wasn't for me, when I first started. The man that ran the store bought what he used. You either had to take it, or go elsewhere. By the way, elsewhere was 45 miles away.

 

[JohnM]

By the way, elsewhere was 45 miles away.
__________________

For us it's a minimum of 50 miles to just buy groceries.

 

[res7s]

Ya'll had groceries?

 

[ranger335v]

"Why is choosing a powder such a pain!"

Never have found that to be a problem.

 

[RandyP]

You want to buy just one powder for both calibers, if I am reading the OP correctly?

Seems to me that if your load tables show the same ball powder for the Casull and the .44 Mag that would be a good choice and most ball powders meters quite well?

 

[Sturmcrow]

Randy, I want to be able to load 44mag-energy loads in 454. Around 1000-1200 ft-lbs or so. I'd also rather use a powder that gives decent performance with literally light loads, so I get more per pound. These would be lead practice rounds mostly, to get proficiency with the weapons, so saving a penny here and there doesn't hurt.

I see on handloads.com a Bullseye load that gets 700 ft-lbs w/ 9.5 grs at 33,000 CUP. Could that be brought up a bit to 1000 ft-lbs or so?

Somewhat unrelated and I may need to ask in a separate post. Are the Accurate powders, AA#7 specifically, pretty temperature sensitive? I ran some 9mm and 10mm loads over my Chrony when it was 24 F out, and they were much slower than I expected.

 

[918v]

I see on handloads.com a Bullseye load that gets 700 ft-lbs w/ 9.5 grs at 33,000 CUP. Could that be brought up a bit to 1000 ft-lbs or so?

Bullseye is not a good powder to raise past 30,000 PSI. Get some Trail Boss. You get 100% load density, light recoil, and decent accuracy without having to tip the gun up before every shot.

There is no such thing as a do it all powder, but if you want 44 Mag performance, use 2400. You can download it, upload it, load it, etc. It is very flexible.

 

[buck460XVR]

I don't load for .454, but I do load for it's big brother the .460. My experience is with such large cases it's almost impossible to go from mild to wild with one powder. My best luck in the .460 for versatility is with IMR4227. 2400 at reduced loads got finicky for me and H110/W296 while it gives the best OA performance, does not like to be downloaded. IMR4227 downloaded reasonably well to reduced recoil levels, but never to .45LC cowboy action powder puff type loads. Only powder that gave me that was TrailBoss. Problem with powder puff loads is they print so differently from standard type loads that I gave up on them. I also have good results in my .44 carbines/revolvers with IMR4227, so I'll assume it would work well in .454 carbines/revolvers also. It does not give me the velocities of H110/W296, but is just as accurate and seems to less temperature sensitive if you hunt in extreme temps. I am shooting up the last of my Lil' gun reloads and powder in my carbines, but have given up on it for my revolvers because of evidence that it may cause premature forcing cone erosion.

 

[zxcvbob]

You want 1000 to 1200 fps from a .454 in a carbine? Unless you are using 405 grain rifle bullets, that's less than .44 Magnum performance, that's down in .45 Colt territory -- not that there's anything wrong with that.

Have you tried Red Dot powder? or Unique? Try about 8.5 grains of Red Dot with a 255 grain RNFP hard cast bullet (in .454 brass. That's a little too high to be loading in .45 Colt brass, but you could go 7.5 grains in .45LC.)

 

[Sturmcrow]

Sorry zxcvbob, I meant 1000-1200 in a handgun. I will be shooting them out of a carbine to start with, but most all of the reloading data I can find appears to be based on hanguns, so I am using that as my baseline. Even that might be a bit less than I really want. I'm getting almost 900 ft-lbs out of my G20 with a 6" aftermarket barrel and some stout 800X loads. They glocksmile like crazy in my stock barrel, however, so probably pretty high pressure, though the primers look fine in the aftermarket one.

Buck, do you think lil gun would have the same forcing cone problem in 454? Is it more abrasive than other powders, or is the pressure curve off?

 

[zxcvbob]

I shoot 250 grain .45 Colts at 1300+ fps from a 7.5" handgun. (I don't shoot very many like that at a time; the fun wear off pretty fast) I'm not even using 2400 or 296, other folks shoot them faster than that.

My favorite .45 Colt load (subject to change) is a 230 grain cast bullet with 7.5 grains of Promo powder -- same as Red Dot but cheaper and a little less fluffy. It shoots between 1000 and 1100 fps from a revolver. That's a lot more fun to shoot a bunch of. I wouldn't shoot it in a Taurus Gaucho or a prewar Colt SAA, but I probably would in a medium-frame Ruger like a New Vaquero.

You're actually using the right cartridge, that's a good thing. But the performance levels you're after are not that hard to achieve. Unique or Herco will do it easy, and will save you a bunch of money on powder.

 

[41 Mag]

I have a Raging Bull in 454 with the 8 3/8" barrel. For close to a year now I have been casting my won 300gr bullets for it. What I found was that while I can handle the 1500+fpr loads they are simply not needed on a week in week out basis. As such in doing the research on them I have found that most folks are shooting the WFN type bullets in the 1100 - 1350fps range. I have been playing with several powders that would allow me to drop the velocity as well as keep up decent accuracy as I hunt with this revolver.

My last loads were using 20grs of 2400 and across the chrony at about 12 feet they were hitting 1100fps. I am using Starline cases, the Lee 300gr RF GC tumble lubed with Alox, and Wolf small rifle primers. So far this has been the best lower velocity load I have tried. You could also look into the Ruger/Contender 45 Colt loads, and use the max data as starting data for the 454. This will at least give you an idea of what might be a better lower end load.

While 2400 might not get you back up into the very top end loads with this caliber, it will certainly get you into a very respectable range with some of the heavier bullets, and it has a pretty wide range to work with as well.

I haven't dropped down to Unique nor to Trial Boss, but I have used them in my 45 Colt and they do make for some easy shooting loads.

 

[Hondo 60]

Why is choosing a powder such a pain!

Because there are multiple companies that sell gunpowder & they each say theirs is the best.
They tell you theirs is good for a number of calibers,
but don't tell you the whole story.