Why is it a .357?

[MikeIsaj]

Why is it a .357magnum as opposed to a .38magnum? Is the round actually smaller and if it is, why?

It is almost embarrassing to admit I never thought much about it but, today I was asked that question.

 

[nhhillbilly]

The diameter

The diameter of the round is .357â€

 

[Frohickey]

Bullet diameter can range from 0.357 inches to 0.358 inches for lead rounds.

The question should be, why was the 38special called the 38special?

 

[marlin.357]

The .38 is a .357

Bullets for the .38 and the .357 are the same diameter. The real question should be why is the .38 called a .38 and not a .357?

 

[SLCDave]

IIRC, the .38 was named for the external diameter of the case mouth.

 

[SLCDave]

.38 was already taken by the .38 S&W, am I right, Frohickey?

 

[LHB1]

I agree with Marlin. The .38 is misnamed. By all rights, it should be .36 or .357 and not .38. And yes, the .38 and .357 shoot the same diameter bullets. You can shoot .38 Special ammo in .357 Mag revolvers because the Mag chambers are simply a little longer than the .38 chambers. Metallurgy is better on the Magnum revolvers also as the steel is made tougher by heat treatment and alloys used.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

ps: DON'T try to shoot a .357 Mag cartridge in .38 Special gun EVEN if you have had the chambers reamed out. The metal is not proofed for the higher pressure of magnum loads.

 

[P. Plainsman]

Calling it a .357 also sounds cooler than .38; precise, high-tech (in 1935!). All those odd numbers in a row sound aggressive. A strange, numerological thing.

 

[TMM]

well said, plainsman.

 

[critter]

I think the "38" was named from the case mouth diameter WAY back when it still used heeled bullets which had a smaller diameter heel shank that was inserted into the case. The forward part of the bullet was larger than the heel.

A lot of the screwy bullet/ammo names are left overs from blackpowder days, days of naming rounds after the year they were brought out and other inane things, ie 45-70, 30-06, etc.

 

[Frohickey]

Actually, 45-70 is caliber of bullet, and grains of black powder.

30-06 is caliber of bullet, and year of adoption.

 

[MikeIsaj]

And now I know..... the rest of the story. Thanks to all for educating me.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

My understanding from reading up on the original of my little baby:

This is the original 357 Magnum. Mine was made on 10/4/39, and is one of the original Registered Magnums. By the way, 50 shots, single action, 15 yards.

Anyway, when D. Wesson was looking around for a name to the new cartraige that he helped make as a setup up from the 38/44 high speed, he decided that the 357 would be the size of the bullet. The magnum comes from (the story is) the fact that he liked champagne. A very large bottle of champagne is called a "Magnum". Thus they called it the .357 Magnum.

Until you shoot an original 357 Magnum, it is hard to believe how nice a revolver can be and how great the accuracy can be.

Hope this helps.

 

[cls12vg30]

Even worse naming is the .380 auto, which, like the 9mm parabellum, has a bullet diameter of .355". Care must of course be taken not to mix either of these up with a 9mm Makarov, which has a diameter of .364".

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The original .38s (such as the .38 Short Colt, the great-grand daddy of the .357) were true .38s. As mentioned earlier, they used heeled bullets -- the base of the bullet was reduced in diameter to fit inside the case.

These bullets were lubricated (as all lead bullets must be), and the lubricant grease wore off, washed off, or baked off in the outdoors. The solution was to reduce bullet diameter, add grease grooves, and load the bullet so the grease grooves were below the case mouth. This made the bullet too small for the bore.

There were two choices -- make the chambers and cases bigger, and use a bullet properly sized for the bore, or simply reduce bore size. The latter choice made most sense. The new, reduced size bullets were made of soft lead with hollow bases and would still shoot fairly well in earlier .38s -- to retain that market, the designation went unchanged.

As a result of all this, the .38s became .36s in actuality -- something that Douglas Wesson recognized when he named the new cartridge the ".357 Magnum."

 

[prisoner6]

But then why didn't they do the same when they made the " .429 Magnum " a few years later?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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But then why didn't they do the same when they made the " .429 Magnum " a few years later?
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Oscar Wilde said, "A foolish regard to consistency is the hobgoblen of small minds." Apparently there were no small minds at Smith and Wesson in those days.

 

[kimbernut]

.38? .357?

Vern quote-"The original .38s (such as the .38 Short Colt, the great-grand daddy of the .357) were true .38s. As mentioned earlier, they used heeled bullets -- the base of the bullet was reduced in diameter to fit inside the case."

My reloading manuals show .38 S&W as .357 diameter but says"........The nominal bullet diameter for the 38 S&W cartridge is .360",so the bullets listed are actually undersized for this cartridge.......".Wasn't the .38 Special always .357 diameter?What was the actual diameter of the .38 Short Colt and the .38-44? I'd not heard this before.I'd really like to know! Thanks.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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My reloading manuals show .38 S&W as .357 diameter but says"........The nominal bullet diameter for the 38 S&W cartridge is .360",so the bullets listed are actually undersized for this cartridge.......".Wasn't the .38 Special always .357 diameter?What was the actual diameter of the .38 Short Colt and the .38-44? I'd not heard this before.I'd really like to know! Thanks.
-------------------------------------

Both the .38 Colt and the .38 S&W underwent this shrinking process. When the .38 Long Colt was developed, the .38 Colt became the .38 Short Colt. By this time, it was loaded with inside lubricated bullets, and was already .357.

So the .38 Long Colt was .357 from the outset. Smith and Wesson "stretched" the .38 Long Colt to produce the .38 Special. Loading the .38 Special to very high pressures in the early 1930s resulted in the .38/44 -- which was only suitable for very strong revolvers, such as the .38 built on the .44 frame (hence the name, ".38/44.")

The .38/44 was a dangerous proposition, however, because it WAS a .38 Special, and could be fired in any revlover chambered for the .38 Special. Realizing this, S&W and Winchester "stretched" the .38 Special to produce a new cartridge that could not be chambered in .38 Specials -- the .357 Magnum.

 

[kimbernut]

Thanks, Vern

Thanks,Vern. That's what I needed.

 

[happy old sailor]

and let's not forget the 38/40, which is really a 40/40. my take on this it was done to prevent casual misidentification by the masses. even a more modern cartridge is called the .454 Casull and shoots .452 bullets, then i hear another 45 cartridge is coming along designated 640, or is that 460, for which we already have a .452 round called the Rowland. so, i simply must begin to pay more attention. when/if i get one of these, i will pay close attention to specifics. the proof is in the reloading manuals (plural). my .02

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The naming of cartridges is not an exact science. Consider the .22 centerfires; the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester are all .224 groove diameter.