CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Wrong bullet and/or placement. The .45-70 is more than capable.Either that or the wrong caliber.
Wrong bullet and/or placement. The .45-70 is more than capable.Either that or the wrong caliber.
To answer the OP: Because this is a damn sexy gun and by law the only thing that it is allowed to eat is .45-70
He was using the wrong bullet.
That's not really the case. The .458WM is perfectly fine as it stands today - remember that the .404J and .450/400 were the game control rifles of choice for decades, and the .458WM outperforms both by some margin.I wonder if all you 45-70 in Africa fans remember why the .458 Lottwas conceived. The .458 Win magnum the 45-70 ALMOST equals was found lacking.
AND, the wrong cartridge. Who would shoot a rhino with a 45-70?
Was he/she trying to prove a point.
I thought the professional hunters in Africa would have nixed that crap.
Winchester fixed the powder problem. The result was a load 150 feet per second less then the original .458. Winchester can't fix it, but you can? Game control was done with what was available at the time. We've got better today. Improve the .450NE? It's what 120 years old? Thats the gold standard?That's not really the case. The .458WM is perfectly fine as it stands today - remember that the .404J and .450/400 were the game control rifles of choice for decades, and the .458WM outperforms both by some margin.
The issues that motivated the .458 Lott were actually ammo issues. The stories have become muddled over time, but there were definitely some very slow if not non-igniting loads that came out of the Winchester plant. Whether it had to do with the wrong powder, too little powder, or a powder that should not have been compressed but was is now confused. But the thinking behind the Lott was that more case capacity would make it easier to get loads that were reliable. That thinking was basically wrong. What was needed was .458WM loads with the right charge of the right powder. But of course when you get people convinced they need a bigger case, the thing takes on a mind of it's own. Strangely, no one's decided the .450NE needs to be made bigger even though it's the ballistic twin of the .458WM.
Most modern .458WM ammo meets the original spec - 500gr 2150 through a 26" barrel. And that spec is fine - in fact 1900 ft/s would have been fine. The problem is when the powder is bad and you get 700 ft/s.Winchester fixed the powder problem. The result was a load 150 feet per second less then the original .458. Winchester can't fix it, but you can? Game control was done with what was available at the time. We've got better today. Improve the .450NE? It's what 120 years old? Thats the gold standard?
PHs should be looking at what bullet is being driven at what velocity. If that combination is appropriate for the game, it doesn't really matter what's on the case headstamp.
How are they going to know that?
Is that info on all 45-70 commercial ammo? Bullet type maybe but not velocity.
If you don't know the velocity or bullet type of the ammo, then it's not appropriate for dangerous game. That's a general rule regardless of caliber. You should be able to find out for anything reputable commercial. For handloads, the client better know.
PHs should be looking at what bullet is being driven at what velocity. If that combination is appropriate for the game, it doesn't really matter what's on the case headstamp.
I was referring to the PH, not the person who wants to use their 45-70.
You said,
I have a feeling that a PH isn't going to get into that. Commercial ammo and certain cartridges required would be my guess.
It was a hippo and ALL the Big 6 have been taken with handguns so.....AND, the wrong cartridge. Who would shoot a rhino with a 45-70?
Was he/she trying to prove a point?
I thought the professional guides in Africa would have nixed that crap.
The .458 was Winchester's attempt to duplicate the .450NE in a standard long action boltgun. The .450 is a double rifle cartridge with a big rim and as such, they can be as long as you want. More challenging task to stuff it into a .30-06 length action. The .416 and .450Rigby was the same sort of adaptation, except they used the magnum length Mauser action.Winchester fixed the powder problem. The result was a load 150 feet per second less then the original .458. Winchester can't fix it, but you can? Game control was done with what was available at the time. We've got better today. Improve the .450NE? It's what 120 years old? Thats the gold standard?
Brian Pearson shot thru two cape buffaloes with a 45/70 I think 400 grain hardcast bullets at 1600 FPSAND, the wrong cartridge. Who would shoot a rhino with a 45-70?
Was he/she trying to prove a point?
I thought the professional guides in Africa would have nixed that crap.