Why no bolt gun in 7.62x39 ,or 5.45×39mm?
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dodgeboy12008
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Cz 527, but its msrp is about $700.
Ruger once made the Model 77 MkII and the Hawkeye in 7.62x39. They stopped making them, presumably because they didn't sell.
Personally, if I was looking at a gun that was offered in 7.62x39 but I could get the same gun, at the same weight in 308, I'd get the 308.
There have been guns sized down to 7.62x39 size, such as the Zastava Mini-Mauser. They haven't set any sales records either.
Personally, if I was looking at a gun that was offered in 7.62x39 but I could get the same gun, at the same weight in 308, I'd get the 308.
There have been guns sized down to 7.62x39 size, such as the Zastava Mini-Mauser. They haven't set any sales records either.
Deus Machina
Member
In general, people want certain things from bolt guns.
Extremely cheap to feed and accurate.
Great accuracy.
Solid hunting rounds.
.22LR fits the cheap bill, accuracy is covered by whatever they feel like or things like .223 that exhibit less drop than x39--and cheap surplus isn't known for it's great accuracy, and even 7.62x39 is often considered just about marginal for deer.
So while it would be fun, cheap to shoot, and probably a great gun overall, it just wouldn't sell all that well. At least not at a price point that they could make a nice gun at.
Extremely cheap to feed and accurate.
Great accuracy.
Solid hunting rounds.
.22LR fits the cheap bill, accuracy is covered by whatever they feel like or things like .223 that exhibit less drop than x39--and cheap surplus isn't known for it's great accuracy, and even 7.62x39 is often considered just about marginal for deer.
So while it would be fun, cheap to shoot, and probably a great gun overall, it just wouldn't sell all that well. At least not at a price point that they could make a nice gun at.
beatledog7
Member
Other than with rimfire rounds, I don't see why a bolt gun shooter would be focused on cheap ammo.
Bolt gun shooters want accurate, consistent, flat-shooting rounds with appropriate terminal ballistics for their targets. They often shoot at long range, so they need rounds that shoot bullets with high ballistic coefficients. They're not focused on rapid follow-up shots or seeing how many rounds they can get downrange in the shortest possible time.
Building bolt-action rifles chambered for cartridges whose design makes achieving these goals difficult defeats the purpose of the turn-bolt design.
Bolt gun shooters want accurate, consistent, flat-shooting rounds with appropriate terminal ballistics for their targets. They often shoot at long range, so they need rounds that shoot bullets with high ballistic coefficients. They're not focused on rapid follow-up shots or seeing how many rounds they can get downrange in the shortest possible time.
Building bolt-action rifles chambered for cartridges whose design makes achieving these goals difficult defeats the purpose of the turn-bolt design.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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You can rebarrel a Savage Axis to 5.45 and there was a East German "wall sniper" rifle in that caliber too. 7.62x39 out of a bolt gun is very accurate.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Probably why you see lotsa lever action .30-30 carbines but few bolt action models (Savage 340 and Remington 788 come to mind). The original designed platforms for the caliber (for .30-30 the Win M1894 and Marlin M1893 now 336; for 7.63x39mm the Siminov SKS and Kalashnikov AK) are very successful and even more commonly distributed. People who want bolt actions usually want more powerful, more accurate, or more long range cartridges than .30-30 ot 7.62x39mm. Although I would not turn down a 7.62x39 CZ bolt-action as a woods walking rifle.
East German Army (NVA) used to field one in 5,45x39. It had competition style blond wood stock no iron sight plus Carl Zeiss Jena scope with both adjustment drums atop like older German-made scopes made for Weatherby rifles when they were made in Sauer Werke.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Unfortunately they didn't sell like hotcakes so most manufacturers didn't pursue their manufacture. The market just wasn't there for a 7.62X39 bolt action rifle.
Ron
There are several places where rifles chambered in handgun calibers are the only legal option.
There have been several bolt rifles made in 7.62X39. No one bought them. Gun companies don't make products they can't make a profit on.
Sorry, but I don't think a bolt action 7.62x39 would be that great of a rifle or seller... Why buy a bolt gun chambered in comparatively weak 7.62x39 when for about $300 you can buy one chambered in 3006, 308, 270 or 243? Besides semi-cheap plinking, what is a bolt action 7.62x39 going to be good for when compared to other rounds? Why not just buy an SKS for that? Low recoil deer rifle? There are better suited rounds for that as well. Besides, at least for American shooters and hand loaders, there are bore diameter issues to contend with when shooting 7.62x39. 7.62x 39 usually uses .311 bullets while US .30 caliber rifles use .308. US rifles made for 7.62x39 usually use a compromise diameter (of about .310) that does OK with either .311 or .308 but accuracy usually isn't anything to get excited about. Accuracy in your proposed bolt action with a compromise diameter probably wouldn't be up to typical bolt action accuracy standards unless you settled on one diameter or the other (which no American company is likely to do, certainly not the .308 route with good reason) and if you did that would introduce other problems (such as either you couldn't reload with .308 bullets and expect a high degree of accuracy or you couldn't shoot surplus without high pressures).
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scaatylobo
Member
Agreed,I want to see more of them
I got the Mossberg MVP in 5.56 [ not .223 ] and its a blast to shoot and very accurate too.
I want a bolt gun in BOTH [ 7.62X39 & 5.45X39 ] of the calibers you named as I have a good deal of ammunition for them and now appreciate the accuracy of a bolt gun,moreso than I did as a young gun.
I am looking at getting the CZ527 [ 7.62X39 ] as it has the best reputation,much better than the Ruger did [ its discontinued as near as I can find out ].
I got the Mossberg MVP in 5.56 [ not .223 ] and its a blast to shoot and very accurate too.
I want a bolt gun in BOTH [ 7.62X39 & 5.45X39 ] of the calibers you named as I have a good deal of ammunition for them and now appreciate the accuracy of a bolt gun,moreso than I did as a young gun.
I am looking at getting the CZ527 [ 7.62X39 ] as it has the best reputation,much better than the Ruger did [ its discontinued as near as I can find out ].
MattShlock
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Why? Because they are astounding handgun rounds and there is much to be said for the cross pollination to a long gun where they perform rather well too as express brush guns. Your answer as a question is also kind of non-aligned...
The reciprocal question is why isn't there a 7.62x39 handgun, right?
AethelstanAegen
Member
I think it's in large part because intermediate rounds like 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 are really meant to be a compromise between rifle rounds and the desire to have large magazines and low recoil (the idea being that rapid fire is more controllable). Bolt guns as others have mentioned are not really concerned with very rapid fire (you're going to lose your sight picture during manual reload anyways) and are really focused on longer range, hard hitting shooting (be that hunting, sniping, competition) which 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 really aren't very good at. The only reason I can think you'd really want one in those calibers is because you have a bunch of ammo already as you won't have much, if any, weight savings in a rifle in 7.62x39 over something like .308. Long story short, the demand ix very small, so companies don't bother making it) except for CZ IIRC).
I sold my Ruger M77 in 7.62x39 (very accurate with handloads) simply because I saw no advantage to it over a better performing Marlin 30-30.
The guy who bought it was probably convinced he could shoot cheap steel-cased ammo through it without a care...
M
The guy who bought it was probably convinced he could shoot cheap steel-cased ammo through it without a care...
M
Goju
Member
Remington does have the model 799 in 7.62x39? Other than needing a vehicle to launch a stockpile of Comm Bloc ammo, there certainly has not been much of a demand for them them from the shooting community. Their best value now is as a donor platform to build a 6.5 Grendel bolt gun, to date a non existant factory offering...
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
hah, go ahead and post one on ANY gun classified site.
I've got an interarms mark x in 7.62x39 that I received some insane offers for. Because they are just not that common. Everyone with an AK or an SKS has a perfectly good reason for wanting one. caliber consolidation.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
During the late 80s and early 90s there must have been millions of military surplus and new manufacture SKS and AK type rifles pouring into the US. The 7.62X39 cartridge was suddenly real popular and eventually manufacturers like Winchester and Remington began manufacturing brass cased reloadable ammunition in the cartridge. Not like the cartridge was anything new considering it had been around since 1943 but it was new to the US market. I remember seeing my first 7.62X39 cartridge in Vietnam in '72 and thinking it looked like a stubby 308 Winchester and being anemic in comparison to the .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) cartridge.
Moving along Ruger introduced the Mini-30 in around 1987 chambered in the cartridge and the Ruger Model 77 was chambered in the cartridge in 1991. While the Mini-30 survived the Model 77 sales were not what was hoped for or expected. Eventually Ruger dropped the chambering as did other manufacturers who jumped on the band wagon. There simply was no market for the chambering as has been covered by several members.
If I am going to buy a bolt gun having a short action why would I choose the 7.62X39 over for example the 308 Winchester or for that matter any of the excellent cartridges that spawned from the 308 Winchester? Personally if I want a .30 caliber bullet I am going with the 308 Winchester. I get a significantly more powerful cartridge with more factory loadings available for what amounts to the same price. So why choose the 7.62X39 cartridge?
Had there been a great demand they would be selling like hotcakes but there is not enough demand.
Ron
Moving along Ruger introduced the Mini-30 in around 1987 chambered in the cartridge and the Ruger Model 77 was chambered in the cartridge in 1991. While the Mini-30 survived the Model 77 sales were not what was hoped for or expected. Eventually Ruger dropped the chambering as did other manufacturers who jumped on the band wagon. There simply was no market for the chambering as has been covered by several members.
If I am going to buy a bolt gun having a short action why would I choose the 7.62X39 over for example the 308 Winchester or for that matter any of the excellent cartridges that spawned from the 308 Winchester? Personally if I want a .30 caliber bullet I am going with the 308 Winchester. I get a significantly more powerful cartridge with more factory loadings available for what amounts to the same price. So why choose the 7.62X39 cartridge?
Had there been a great demand they would be selling like hotcakes but there is not enough demand.
Ron
the 357 and 44 mag have the trajectory of a crossbow. a bolt 39 has 3 times the range and could be loaded with round heavy 30 cal bullets for brush work and it has been proven there is no good brush round anyway. I would not want one but it is way better then pistol rounds
krinko
Member
Here's my East German SSG82, just after the original extractor popped out and went walkabout---
After the JD Jones installation of an AR extractor---
100 yard target using Factory 270 surplus 5.45x39---
The 5.45x39 Russian surplus has produced sub-MOA groups in my Colt & Wesson AR using the experimental Green Mountain barrel and Nikon M 223.
So let's not assume all 5.45 is mass blasting ammunition.
-----krinko
PS Bad mouth 7.62x39 all you want, though.
After the JD Jones installation of an AR extractor---
100 yard target using Factory 270 surplus 5.45x39---
The 5.45x39 Russian surplus has produced sub-MOA groups in my Colt & Wesson AR using the experimental Green Mountain barrel and Nikon M 223.
So let's not assume all 5.45 is mass blasting ammunition.
-----krinko
PS Bad mouth 7.62x39 all you want, though.
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Well, if it were me, I'd take one of those "insane" offers....
I have AKs and SKSs and I don't want a bolt action 7.62x39.. The rifle would be an "odd duck" that doesn't really excel at anything. All the speed of a bolt action with the power and trajectory of, well, less than a thirty-thirty and the capacity of a revolver... Why not just make a 30/30 bolt gun? Oh yeah, they tried that and they didn't sell too well either... I suspect there are many others who don't want a 7.62x39 bolt action any more than I do or else there would be a lot more companies putting them on store shelves...
I have a great idea for a drilling.. Make all three barrels 7.62x39... Why you ask? Caliber consolidation.... LOL
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Otony
Member
Um, actually, Savage does make a 7.62x39 bolt action. As does CZ, as does Zastava (imported under various names, Charles Daly, Remington, and others, as well as their own currently).
Ruger has made such in the past, as already reported, and there have been a few odd ball sporter rifles out of Mother Russia so chambered.
H&R and Rossi both made their single-shot rifles in 7.62x39 for a couple of minutes. Baikal makes a single-shot in that cartridge, along with a combo gun in 12ga and .30 Russian Short.
Look around......and as others have said, if he demand was there.....
Ruger has made such in the past, as already reported, and there have been a few odd ball sporter rifles out of Mother Russia so chambered.
H&R and Rossi both made their single-shot rifles in 7.62x39 for a couple of minutes. Baikal makes a single-shot in that cartridge, along with a combo gun in 12ga and .30 Russian Short.
Look around......and as others have said, if he demand was there.....
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