Why No Love For AXES

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I concede that calvary sabres did play a role in the US Army through the Civil War, and of course sabres played at least soe role in the Navy. But those are limited applications. The sword, as collected in this country, is primarily a creature of European and Asian history. Longswords, broadswords, bastard swords, and the ubiquitos katanas played very limited roles in American history. John Brown hacked a family to death with a broadsword in Kansas, but that's the only time I know of one being used.

I guess part of the problem is that familiarity breeds contempt and the grass is always greener on the other side of the ocean. The axe is something that sits next to the other tools. The Katana, on the other hand, is a super ultimate cool ninja sword from Japan, and it can cut a car in half :evil:
 
Well...if you're gonna dredge up John Brown, I'll counter with Lizzie Borden!
 
In the Little House on the Prairie books, there's a great line when Almanzo and his father go the to Independence Day celebration in their small New York town. One of Mr. Wilder's acquaintances, upon hearing the cannon salute, exclaims "That's the sound that made the redcoats run!"
Almanzo's father quietly tells him "You're right, but it won't be noise and smoke that build this country. That's being done with axes and plows."

I'm paraphrasing there, of course. I don't recall his exact words.
 
I bought a neat & petite little ax (as John Greco noted, "Cast, but a good cast) at the Blade show. Feels sweet.

John
 
Those folks with handguns try something called the Mozambique, two shots to center mass, then one to the head. They then hope to have stopped the enemy.
Those with axes take one good chop to the head. Nothing new, nothing spectacular. But the enemy is now missing something very vital he would need to continue his attack.
Reloading is very quick, BTW.
And for those who believe swords are superior to the axe, just go figure why so many folks were using axes (or halibards) for centuries during the middle age. Darwin certainly did not rule out using the axe.
 
The axe is one of the primary tools used by firefighters. It is featured on all kinds of fire department logos. Show someone a pick head axe and the first thought that will come to their mind is firefighting. Every vehicle on our department (hundreds) including ambulances contains TWO axes: a flat head axe and a pick head axe. As a firefighter on our department, you don't get off the truck without a forcible entry tool and one of those tools WILL be an axe. An axe and a halligan tool is called a set of irons: this is a common term used in firefighting. For example, when making an interior fire attack we have a team of 3-4 firefighters standing right outside the door in case something bad happens. They can go in and rescue the victims. Our SOPs dictate that they WILL have a set of irons.
Every structure fire I ever fought found me with a pickhead axe stuck on my belt. The uses are many. I have seen more than one axe taken off the engine for possible self defense use. I know of at least one guy that saved his life with an axe. He was inside a house fire and was cut off by fire. He realized he had no way out and was running out of air. He made his own way out through the wall. This is a very common task that we are taught in the academy and drill on throughout our career.
I know dozens of guys with tatoos that have axes in them.
I know a lot of guys that spent a lot of money to purchase their own bling bling axe that they carry.
On our truck companies (ladder trucks) there is a safety belt for each man. Each belt has a sheath with a hatchet on it.
In case you have been living in a cave until now, here is a picture: http://www.advfr.com/fireaxes.htm
The axe is alive and well and certainly isn't being ignored by everyone.
I have actually seen people studying axe catalogs and have participated in serious conversations about axes and their uses.
 
Well it sounds like the love for axes is alive and well--at least among firemen. But what I don't see are a lot of custom axes celebrating their axeishnes alongside all the high-end swords Americans are buying.
 
I agree it would be interesting to see the relative ax to sword figures.

Cold Steel...
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Busse...

John Greco...

Swamp Rat...

Of course, all the hawks at American Tomahawk Company...and many others, of course.

I dunno. I'm actually seeing a resurgence of the ax as a tool and weapon in real-life field usage, but the sword...not so much.

John
 
For better than three-hundred years, the sword was the sidearm of choice (and of the gentleman). Our own armed forces maintained issue sword patterns well into the 1880's and were standard or common issue for everything from calvary privates to infantry non-coms. They didn't for axes.

If axes were significantly better close - in antipersonal weapons, why wouldn't they have been fielded? If our forces had been defeated largely because they had been issued blades, instead of axes wouldn't there have been a switch?


The final evolution of the european sword was into sabers and rapier/foils. Why? Because they represented the minimial amount of power needed to reliably and efficently drop someone. Personal armor had disappeared, so there was no need to split things in twain. The lighter-weight swords offered better stand off distance, AND improved speed. A hatchet or tomhawk will be out reached at minimum by a foot and a half, and still have a speed disadvantage (wrist and short-arm motion is faster than full-arm swings mandated by axes).

In brief, lighter axes won't have the reach and are still likely to be too heavy to keep up with a fencing style. A larger axe could have the improved reach, but will lack the needed speed to prevent a saber-wielder from stepping in and slitting your throat. Yes, you can do a thrust with an axe. But it won't have the speed of a blade, and will provide a non-cutting shaft that can be grabbed.

At present, you cannot see a resurgence in swords in this nation. Most if not all states already have legislation on the books prohibiting carrying such. Why? Swords are almost purely weapons and have little utility as tools. This made them easy targets once dueling went out of tolerance. Axes are still common in society as tools for clearing brush, to hammer/hatchets used in roofing.

Just because an item (axes) meet the current criteria (compact, serviceable in a varity of roles, not strictly illegal in many areas to carry) does not mean that it is best or most efficent at all tasks it could perform ( close personal combat).
 
Swords have chiefly existed as symbols of rank for over 100 years.

It would be interesting to see how many hawks and hatchets vs. swords have been carried by American forces.

Swords are, for all intents, obsolete for modern mil usage because they're cumbersome. Small axes are useful and can be effective CQB tools.

John
 
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100 years ago puts us back to 1905. US Horse mounted calvery had yet to be disbanded, and would have still been issued saber. Patton himself designed and had accepted a replacement saber after your 100 year cut-off.

While we can argue the releavance of horse calvery of that era on the contemporary battlefield against first rate powers, it did still have some life left in policing actions in mexico and the rest of south america.

If you wish to be a bit more broad in your definitions, several british units never gave up the kurki which is at its longer lengths, nothing more than a reverse-curved short sword.

I would agree that long-swords have become irrelevant militarily except as status symbols since about 80 years ago. Oddly, they might well be better suited for civilian carry than handguns. They'd offer a better visual deterant, are just as effective within ranges accepted for self-defense (15 feet or so), and could even be quicker to deploy. While not offering the same force-multiplication as firearms, they can come mighty close.

In any event, I would never claim them to be un-American. From the farmer/volunteer at bunker hill with his brass hilted short sword, to the privateers cutlass in 1812 all the way up to the calvery saber that chased Pancho Villa. While not distinctly american, I wouldn't claim they were un-American.

If you have evidence of the resurfacing of the hatchet prior to the 1960's, I'd be interested in hearing it. The most common re-adoption of the axe that I am aware of was after the partial disposal of what displaced the sword to most infantry. Namely, that pole-arm also known as a rifle with bayonet. Obviously the AK series is on the short side for most bayonet maneuvers, and the AR/M16 platform is of questionable durability when used as a club.

I doubt that a short, thrusting sword is any less appropriate than the modern hatchets. However only one of these has utility besides as weapon, making it worth humping. It may well be interesting to see as more militaries begin issuing balastic armor if the hatchets persist. While a hatchets larger brother is well suited to defeating such, the smaller versions lack in point penetrating power as do handgun rounds. If this comes to pass, then moderate length thrusting swords could once again be of service.
 
i was in USMC JROTC program in high school in the mid-80s and we drilled with swords while in school. I remember seeing them at 8th and I. I still see them in the recruiting posters.

I like axes as much as the next guy, and particularly the tomahawk variety. My favorite would have to be the one used in _Last of the Mohicans_, but I suspect that design is more fantasy than actual history, much like this list
Longswords, broadswords, bastard swords, and the ubiquitos katanas ....

too much dungeons & dragons
 
I've got one of the "Throwing shovels" myself, and I'm -very- impressed with it. Its a pretty strong steel so it doesnt exactly take kindly to getting an edge however once its given a good edge, it retains it for a good while. I've used it for clearing brush as sort've a poor man's machete, a hammer and an axe. It does the job every single time, I'm exceptionally impressed with it, cant say enough about it!
 
Must remember that part of the "axeishness" of the axe is its unpretentious nature. Maybe not true for those European nobles in the old days, but to an American or a Canadian I think you could support that.
 
I doubt I'd use one as a weapon but as a tool this is one tough sumb****.
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Fiskars/Gerber 16".
I have leaned into this as hard as I could. Split logs well over 12" in diameter. No shock/vibration, and the angle of the blade sends wood flyin'.

Wouldn't dare use its plastic handle as a weapon against another blade but as an axe, in the modern sence and usage, It just plain works.
 
A hammer backed tomohawk is a tool... chop wood, pound stakes, toss at bad guys etc. It's a wicked weapon that can be used in a varity of nasty ways, but mostly its a tool.

That's as American as a Hawken rifle or Bowie knife. Gentlemen carried swords. Frontiersman used the hand axe and dirk.

Ever see a Patton saber? All business, no frills... Patton was certainly someone who knew what he was doing. Still, I don't take the jeep 'in the woods' without an axe and shovel. Certainly chainsaws are more effective... but an axe doesn't run out of gas until you do.

the LAST issued 'axe' was the Vietnam era tomohawk.
 
I want a few of these
 

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Doc, where they issue or picked up in Japan et all during leave, like the rifle scopes? I've seen plenty of catalogs touting them, but none ever seemed to refer to a pattern number (which, obviously, everything that is issued has..)
 
FWIW, halberds and such pole arms were meant mainly for infantry to use against mounted opponents. I've never tried one, but they look too big and awkward for hand-to-hand combat.

MHQ ran an article a while ago pointing out that spear and halberd armed infantry were great on the defense against cavalry, but lousy on the offense because of the difficulty of keeping the line together as it advanced. The Swiss were the only troops who trained together long enough to get good at it. Some others issued every third man or so a "goedendag"- roughly an oversized baseball bat with a long spike coming out the top- so that he could whack or spike horses while being protected by pole arms on either side and have more flex in the formation. Worked pretty well apparently.
 
Oda Nobunaga's troops were also quite skilled w/ the long spear- including attack. Introducing a longer spear was just one of Nobunaga's innovations...

John
 
What about the performance axes you see on the timbersports shows? I seem to remember a company named Ochesfeld? or something? A German company for sure.
 
What about the lowly hoe?

Some years ago I read, in the Kentucky Living Magazine, statistics on killings in the state for the year of 1866 (I think it was) and the most used weapon was the hoe…. Something like fifty as opposed to 15 or so with a gun.

I surmised that KY, being a border state, a lot of fire-arms had been procured by both army's and guns would have been scares and with food being in short supply, everyone would be spending a lot of time in the guardian, but the statistic dose bear noting.

PS: for about 10 of 15 years after the Civil War, the Appalachians were a very lawless place and people formed something of a fuddle system in order to survive. Surpassingly enough there are a lot of parallels between today's gangs in gettos and post war Appalachia. Probably not the form for that discussion.
 
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