Why not a Wal-Mart $114 muzzle loader?

[flyboy1788]

I would refrain from buying any CVA muzzleloader. They are an import and do not pass my standard for safety, or proof pressure testings. If you value your face and care not to have your digits blown off, I'd steer clear of their inferior firearms. I speak not only from experience, but have seen first hand the inferior quality in the spanish steel they use. However, they make a good conversation piece for above the fireplace. I have nothing against import firearms since I own several. I am just concerned about the safety of the shooter and bystanders. Also, I do not wish to grant license to the anti's and the CDC to falsely misrepresent firearm safety. Importers do not give one hang about your safety. They are only interested in the bottom-line. Don't give that redneck Hillbillary any ammunition to use against the shooting populace. Hillbillary has now been tapped for S.O.S., she will have an increased passion ramped up against gun owners. Best wishes to all.

1.) think about how many CVAs are out there and then how many of those have "blown up" (not very many)

2.) Read the instruction manual and understand what your gun is designed for: No more than 150 grains of pellets--or--No more than 100 grains of loose powder is what my New Frontier(CVA) says I believe.

3.) If guns blowing up in peoples faces was as common as the errornet would have you believe, CVA wouldnt exist any more because people would be all over them.

I know plenty of people with MZs from BPI (spain) that have not had any issues. In fact i have only read about one article that Chuck Hawks website put out on it that ripped BPI/CVA which was written by a fellow named Randy Wakeman. And coincidentally that happens to be the same story that is circulating in multiple places. I would like to know exactly documented cases of faulty barrels there are in relation to the amount of BPI MZs that are in use today.

 

[mykeal]

President's TopGun -

Welcome to the forum. I think you will find the majority of the members are very intelligent and rational people, deeply interested in the shooting sports and muzzleloading in particular.

Along those lines you will probably not be surprised to find that we like to work with hard facts. I have to admit that my 30 plus years of experience with CVA guns does not parallel yours. I would be very interested in your experience; please provide the facts so that I can fully investigate. What happened, to whom and when, what were the circumstances and what were the findings?

I should point out in advance that if your source involves one Randy Wakeman I'll be difficult to convince; my experience with Mr. Wakeman has not produced positive results in the past.

Again, welcome, and I'll be looking forward to your posts.

 

[Coyote Rider]

A couple of thoughts.

1.) <Off-topic political remarks removed>

2.) You're going to acquire a fairly considerable collection of black powder tools and accessories. Each piece will be relatively inexpensive, in general, but by the time you've assembled all of them in one place you'll discover that it's a fair bit of stuff, and not cheap. You'll be amazed how easily you'll spend a few hundred dollars on bp toys at $6.99 or $12.99 or $37.99 a pop — and before you know it you've spent $400 or $500 on a <> cheap Wal-Mart rifle and the accessories for it. If you're going to spend that much, and you probably will, for goodness sake at least get yourself a decent rifle!

 

[kalbo]

buy it

My two cents: I’d buy it. If you hunt in the brush where shots are 100 yards or less this will work fine. When I got into black powder I bought a CVA buckhorn for $99 dollars. READ the instructions. I found 300 grain .452 XTPs on top on 90 grains of triple 7 was the most accurate. I still have that gun and it works great. I take one or two deer a year with it and everything I shoot drops in their tracks. My gun didn’t like the “fancy” and expensive bullets. I spent a fortune on power belts and hydro shock wiz-bang bullets. It didn’t like the lighter bullets. The .452 300 grain XTPs are cheap from Midway and you can buy a bag of the black plastic sabots (for .452 bullets) for a few bucks. The only thing I would suggest is if it comes with an aluminum ram rod, buy a fiberglass one. The aluminum ones will bend. Keep it for cleaning the gun. You can find a 50 cal fiberglass ram rod anywhere and if it is too long, cut it off. Muzzleloader hunting does not have to cost a fortune. Buy it and go hunting.

 

[ArmedBear]

Fiberglass ramrods destroy muzzles. Get a muzzle protector, too.

 

[pbearperry]

I bought a 50 cal CVA Bobcat at Walmart for $50.00 I guess they just wanted to get rid of it.Last week I shot it at 50 yds standing supported.Using 70 grains of FF black powder with a sabot holding a 240 gr lead swc. After 4 shots I walked downrange to look at my target and I almost fell over.All 4 shots were touching eachother making 1 big hole about 3/4 of an inch.My Buddy has an inline Knight that won't do that.Go figure?

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

If it works then it's a good one. If it dosen't work then it's not worth a damn, I don't care how much it cost.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Inline rifles designed for the 'magnum' load (150 grains) is NOT stupid. They work just fine and have one hell of a lot more power than an 80 grain load, and if you learn how to shoot they are accurate as hell.... At a lot further than 125 yards I might add...
They made .45-70's, .45-120's, and a few .45-170's. (I ain't sure what all else if anything. I'm talking about Sharps.) They WILL shoot the powder and they will NOT spew it out the muzzle, and they pack a wallop on both ends. If you are not careful it will kick you flat on your ass. I have a Sioux friend just a few miles from me and he has a .45-170 that's been in his family since before the Little Big Horn dust up. He get's his elk and buffalo with it every year.
I let him shoot my scoped CVA with 140 grains of Triple Seven in it. It shot good, but it kicked so hard that the rifle jumped back and the scope (Shepherd) left a big round ugly bruise right in the middle of his forehead. I fire 110 grains in it as a normal load. He wasn't expecting it to kick that bad.
His rifle is a Sharp's, and it's a damn good one but there's not enough money in this world to get me to shoot a full load in it. He does, just about all of the time.
Don't ya'll believe the bull s*** some of these people are trying to hand ya'll about a magnum inline is not any good. About how it dosen't burn all the powder and all that stuff. It'll burn it if you load it right. Comparing a magnum inline to a regular percussion or flintlock is like comparing a .44 magnum to a .44 special....

 

[lefteyedom]

When did deer start clading themselves in Kevlar?
Deer are just not that hard to kill. A well placed .36 cal ball will kill any whitetail at reasonable ranges.
People, the need is for better hunters not more powerful Muzzleloaders.

 

[frontiergander]

"I let him shoot my scoped CVA with 140 grains of Triple Seven in it"


Is that 140gr triple 7 load loose powder or pellets?

150gr is a waste of powder and not needed, plain and simple. All its there for are the chrono junkies who want to push a tiny bullet to the speed of a 30-06.

 

[scrat]

150 grains may not be needed but it is fun sometimes.


i say buy it i would. at that price i would buy a pair. Nothing wrong with it at all. I am a firm believer of matching the gun to the bullet to the powder. With that i have found it just depended on what i was shooting. when shooting R.E.A.L bullets i found 90 grains of goex is superb. Now for sabots. just depends on which ones. i have shot up to 120 grains loose with some excellent results. over that and i did not seem to make a difference. So it really just depends. As far as the power it does not matter. some people will argue about shooting at a deer with 150 grains versus using 60 grains. Well i always thought it was useless to shoot at a paper target at 10 yards with a 44 magnum. but people still do it. they do it for different reasons. so there is no need to ask why or tell someone to do or not do. if your happy with the rifle buy it. most traditionalist will tell you dont buy it. for the reason they are traditionalist. if you shoot it you will see its a good shooting rifle. you can tailor the shots to your needs to gain the best accuracy.

 

[alsaqr]

I would refrain from buying any CVA muzzleloader. They are an import and do not pass my standard for safety, or proof pressure testings.

Welcome. CVA guns are proofed to the Spanish standard of about 10,000 psi.

I speak not only from experience, but have seen first hand the inferior quality in the spanish steel they use.

Show me the photographic evidence and the documentation where a CVA gun blew up with a recommended load of BP or a BP substiture.

Among other things I am a technical researcher. Have searched the internet dozens of times looking for documented evidence that a CVA gun blew up using a recommended load of BP or a BP substitute. Except for undocumented accusations by Randy Wakeman there is nothing there. In fact one of those CVA guns that Wakeman talks about was blown up by an ignorant first time user using smokeless powder.

Randy Wakeman is in cahoots with a Tulsa, OK ambulance chaser.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have used a Walmart CVA Bobcat for years in Muzzloading matches and for the first years I participated in Black Powder cartridge (our BPC matches allowed ML rifles and cap'n'ball pistols). I would not hesitate to take my $59.95 wonder on a deer hunt.

I do recommend range time and most CVA rifles with fixed rear sight have a high brass front blade intended to be filed to zero for your pet load.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Hi..The CVA is a .45 and the 140 grains was loose powder Triple Seven 3fffg. I know the manual call's for 2ff but I own 2 CVA's (same model and design)and 2 Traditions (same model and design)and they are all .45, and 3fff shoot's good in them, at least to me plus it keep's me from having to worry about 2 grades of powder. Believe me sir, there's plenty of power there even with the 110 grains I use as my normal load. Those inlines will reach on out there and touch someone.....That man on this post that said he had a Tradition Tracker, well, if it is like mine and if he dosen't read this, ya'll can tell him for me that he has a damn fine rifle. I bought a pair of them out of Gary Olen's Sportsman Guide a few years ago. I bought the blued steel with the black composite stocks and no scope. I 'vd got my own scopes and stuff. I think mine are the tracker also and they are called the 'Evolution'. They have partially fluted barrels and are Magna Ported, and they are 2 of the finest and best handling rifles I have ever had my hands on. One of them is still in the box and has never been loaded or fired. I love my CVA's but I have used the Tradition much more than I have the CVA's. Well, one of my CVA's is still in the box also.
Yes sir to the other man. I agree. I'vd killed several deer (and Antelope) in my miserable mispent life with a .44 (30 grains of Black Mag 3 3fff and then later 30 grains of Triple Seven 3fff) and have had no problems. Big black tailed deer to, not those little white tailed deer....

 

[frontiergander]

did you know that 120gr 2f triple 7 is equal to 150gr pyrodex rs/blackpowder 2f?

You are waaaaaay over loaded.

CVA did some testing on their new Accura and it took 600gr triple 3f and THREE 444gr Powerbelt bullets to explode the barrel.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

muzzle loaders and loads

I got my first TC hawkin in 77 or 78,traded to cousin for another kit due to boredom.Pyrodex residue left in barrel req replacement ,now has Green Mt 1:28 for slugs.I purchased a cabela's 99.00 china special [inline] thats unimpressive.
The best purchase I made was to buy a .50 cal maxi-ball mold,lesson to self don't use alloy lead; 75 gr of black will put a maxi-ball end for end in our blacktail deer.
Oregon now req : External lock,loose powder[subs ok],no sabots,no scope or fiber optics iron sights only,slugs no more than twice the length of bore dia.
To each their own,If I get any more rifles,I want Flintlocks,I'll stay with black powder,it does'nt deteriorate if it gets wet[just dry it out],and is water soluable,and muzzleloaders used to be cheap to shoot.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

I normally use 110 grains of Triple Seven 3fff. That's for hunting purposes, when I need to reach on out there. Anything closer than that I use a .44 Cattleman's carbine or maybe my Walker. I usually keep my business to myself. I just get tired of hearing people badmouth CVA. I shoot one and know other people that do and we have had no problems. I could, like for instance, tell that guy about the police officer who was at the range about 3 weeks ago with a new Kimber .45 semi-auto pistol that he'd just paid about a thousand dollars for and how on the 25th shot (regular factory ammo right from the store) the whole damn slide came flying off and almost put out his right eye and cost him 7 stitches across his right eyebrow. Any mechanical device can malfunction from one moment to the next.
If anyone has a picture of a CVA blowing up I'd sure like to see it. I'vd seen the same gunsmith who worked on my 58's and my carbines lock a .50 CVA in the vice and keep adding powder until the rifle jarred completely loose from the stock but the barrel didn't burst and the bolt stayed locked in position. I saw that myself and he did to. He took a couple of pictures of it.
No, I don't don't shoot real heavy loads as a matter of course. Sometimes I'll move up to 117 grains if it's a moose or if I'm in bad bear country. That's just to be safe. I know 110 grains of Triple Seven 3fff will put an elk or a buffalo down at a hell of a lot further than you want to walk to him, especially if you have a bad foot like I do.You have to brace up good for shots like that. I'm getting a little old and gimpy. I don't make many shots like that anymore, but I promise you..I have made more than a couple. Usually, on a deer or one of these little antelopes you can work your way close enough or make the antelope come to you out of being curious to use a carbine or a good revolver.
I will say it again though. Scoped up good and with your loads worked out those inlines will reach on out there. Don't under estimate them....

 

[frontiergander]

powder charge doesnt kill the animal, its the projectile and how it performs.

for example, a 295gr powerbelt with 150gr T7 will blow up on a deer with a shot under 100 yards.

But i agree with you on the cva blowing up BS. Its a guy named randy wakeman that is trying shame the cva brand even though hes shot MANY of them.

 

[Dr.Rob]

After buying a traditional CVA Hawken in .54 and spending too much money to put sling swivels on it busting my shoulder up shooting on the brass buttplate YES I wish I had bought a more modern rifle for half the price to try my FIRST hunt.

Those big heavy barrels are accurate but they are a pig to lug around.

 

[THOMPSOB]

walmart is turning in to an anti gunning gun store, I wouldn"t buy anything from them other then motor oil.

 

[hayman]

ATA SHOOTER,
Your going to like the Triumph. I have been getting extemely great groups with 85grns of T7 and a 295 grn PB. I also get great groups with 80grns t7 with the 250 grn shock waves. The groups are less than an inch @100yds. As good as my .270. I love it.

Eddie