Why Open

[mnrivrat]

Hummm --- This sounds like a take off on the thread regarding Maria 's article that advises against open carry.

I think what both Maria and Wismar are getting at is that open carry is not politicaly correct in most area's of the country and particularly in larger cities. They are also concerned that because of this, open carry will do more political harm to the cause of gun rights than good.

In a sense , I think that can be true. On the other hand, I can also relate to those who feel a need to display , if for no other reason, to make a statement ,and to somewhat de-sensitize and educate the general public so that they realize that carrying a gun does not automatically make you something to fear.

Is open carry a in-your-face statement ? Sometimes , but not likely nearly the statement a gay pride parade is for example.

I realy think it is a non-issue for the most part. Most who open carry do so in area's that are somewhat more excepting of it, and for reasons other than making a statement.

 

[Taurus 66]

For one to carry non-concealed provides more ease amongst the public majority immediately exposed to it than it does to raise tension and uneasiness amongst the smaller minority. A sidearm proudly displayed is likely to deter small scale criminal acts within its immediate vicinity. And you'd better think twice if you believe it's easy to relinquish a pistol from its owner because it's visible! Just because it's there saying "Hello", it's not at all an easy take.

Concealment takes slightly longer to get the piece out from under the coat, shirt, vest, etc, and bring it to drop an accurate bead on someone. The time difference between this and that is minute. On the positive side, concealment allows me to visit family, friends, my bank, while armed and not have to worry about any negative feedback from them.

 

[migoi]

I think the best reason to open carry...

is to educate the masses. A huge majority of folks in the U.S. only know about guns through the mass media (TV, movies, magazines, and newspapers). I meet people all the time that have never handled a firearm. Since they draw all their knowledge about firearms from those sources they end up with a pretty warped view about what folks have firearms.

The people that have guns in the mass media fall into a very few categories (I know there are a few exceptions but the overwhelming majority will fall into these few categories): LEO's, criminals, military, survivalist nutbags, and folks in the process of flipping out. You hardly ever (if ever) see a ordinary, go to work every day, pay their taxes, raise their kids to the best of their ability, worry about rising taxes types of people who are not in the process of flipping out have guns in those media sources.

Those that live in places where open carry is legal should exercise that right so that all those soccer moms will see that just because a person has ready access to a firearm doesn't mean that the person will resort to it to resolve all conflicts or situations. All us ordinary folks with firearms need to show that we are just that...ordinary folks. One way to do that is to open carry during the normal course of our daily lives. Except of course those of us that live in places where it is unlawful.

This all of course is just my opinion and it could all be wrong.

migoi

 

[tyme]

Do Not get Mad at me, I am 100% for the 2nd Amendment, I believe in a CCW and Open Carry because that is our Rights, I am just saying that the Liberals want to take this away and sometimes where you carry your weapon can give them a excuse to further try and hold up our right to carry.

You are not 100% for the 2nd amendment as envisioned by the founders. Evidence from the founding era at least up to around 100 years ago demonstrates that open carry was considered good while concealed carry was frowned upon or forbidden.

Perhaps you'd like to address why only some states have stronger prohbiitions against open carry of handguns than against concealed carry, while in others it's the other way around? Carry laws in the U.S. are a colossal mess. Arguing against open or concealed carry, rather than supporting both with good arguments, will only make the situation worse.

 

[FunGunner]

Been my experience that most people are too wrapped up in their own little world to notice a pistol on some one's hip, and if they do they usually think that you are a cop. Because "only the police are allowed to wear guns in public right?" said those that don't read town, city, county, and state codes.

 

[Kharn]

Because it is a giant "Stay away!" sign to criminals. I can only carry at the firing range, but I carry openly so that there's no question I'm always armed. (our range is about 50 yds from the parking lot, with heavy woods in-between, perps have waited in the woods lining the lot before and robbed the last shooter to leave)

Kharn

 

[Smurfslayer]

Here we go again...

Why would anyone Want to carry OPEN, for What reason?
(1) Does it make you feel like a Tuff Guy...(2) Do you think it makes you more Secure?...(3) Your in the Open and Open to anyone that wants you, they already know you are Armed so there is No suprise? (4) No offense but it makes you look like something out of a Goof Movie.

Those of Us that are trying to get Politics on our side to Change Laws for the better and Allow us to carry Concealed are being Joked Off by Carry open, there is No reason to do this. So if you want to Carry, Put it under something on your Person, you Know it Just may save your LIFE.


[SS] Why would anyone clearly having an inferiority complex want to try and bait the open carriers on the board? Does it make you feel like a Crusader for Right?

Ignorance of history is no excuse for this kind of baiting. In the time it took you to get all worked up and type your baiting post, you could have looked up some significant historical cases dealing with open vs. concealed carry.

http://www.guncite.com/court/state/

Start with Bliss vs. Commonwealth. Once you feel good about the Republic, point your browser to State v. Reid. Then Nunn Vs. State. Don't forget Mitchell either.

Once you're done with all of this, then you'll have some standing to discuss the issue intelligently. You'll then have an understanding that concealed carry has been considered 'the practice of ruffians and criminals', for more than a century.

And so that you may not lay exclusive claim to mantle of political champion of the RKBA, why don't you quantify what you've done?

Where were you when I asked for help with the NPS? Have you done anything for it?

In the past year I have written in excess of 20 letters to the editory and 2 op eds, 7 total of which were published. I've personally lobbied the Virginia State General Assembly on behalf of over 2 dozen bills, to the tune of over 100 emails, several letters and a couple personal visits. I kept my Congressional delegation's feet to the fire on the AWB, civil immunity, and, once again, the NPS for their stupid self defense ban.

I could do more, and I'm devoting more of my time to the effort as a whole. There is always room for improvement, and I intend to be more involved next year.

What have you done?

 

[wizmar]

To Smurfslayer

Ist of all I am not Baiting anyone, this is a Open forum, and these were just Questions I have heard asked by Political People and I wanted to see what the People of this forum felt about these type of Questions.
And to you My friend: You are the One that seems to be blowing Your HORN about what you have done? Anyone can write a Letter it just depends how it is Received and How it is Written that Counts. I beleive you are the One With a Inferiority Complex.

Have a Nice Christmas and a Happ New Year.

 

[fistful]

Smurfslayer ,

May we no longer shoot our mouths off in forums without reading a lot of cases we have never heard of, and may not have known how to access? What else is the internet for? Thanks for bringing those resources to our attention, but the condescension is not appreciated.

Must we all have the same level of political involvement or awareness in order to shoot the bull on the internet?

Could I put you in your place by revealing that I am Alan Gottlieb, Larry Pratt, or some other professional RKBA guy, and therefore holier than thou?

As you are so committed to the cause, perhaps you would help a poor lost soul, and tell me what is an NPS.

Thanks,

fistful


Wizmar ,

I believe your question has been very succinctly answered.

- Open carry is more comfortable than concealed.
- Open carry allows a significantly faster draw than concealed.
- Open carry deters criminals from acting, rather than merely allowing you to repond with force (an ounce of prevention, and all that).
- Open carry might help condition people to seeing guns in day-to-day life.

Now answer some of mine.

What on earth is a goof movie? Neva hoid of it.

Tuff guy? Tuff is not in my dictionary. What does it mean?

What is wrong with carrying a gun openly?

Ian's point about conditioning people to seeing guns is very important. On a similar note, many anti-carry people have an idea in their head of the kind of nut who would carry a gun, and open carry may help them realize that gun-totin' folks (some of you, anyway) are normal ( I do not carry).

 

[fistful]

I must protest the comparison of carrying a gun with the sad and disgusting spectacle of a homosexual "pride" parade. Wait a minute, though. If they're so proud, why must they use euphemisms like "gay"?

A gay and happy Christmas to all, and a joyous new year.

 

[P95Carry]

geekWithA.45

If you come to my land and DON'T have a gun on your hip, you are EXPECTED to leave,

Hey dude - I'll be staying - maybe 357 minutes or if a bit rushed - just the 45 LOL!!

I support open carry, to the max. I do however practice ''diplomacy'' ... much depends on a guy's locale and whilst excercizing of the right is good, usually - it can IMO at times be counter-productive. There is perhaps a need to judge conditions and circumstances. It is hard to merge all opinions as valid within the diversity of the lower 48.

OK Alaska - you ain't got this prob anyways really! Not forgetting HI either but don't think you guys have many options.

 

[wasrjoe]

I am 19. If I want to carry, it's open carry or nothing.

 

[RevDisk]

Some of my weapons are too large to wear concealed. You try stuffing a 3.5 foot long machinegun down your pants some time and see how comfy it is.

Oh yea, it also makes me feel tough and manly. Belt fed usually has that effect.

 

[P95Carry]

Thought it was the Barrett that gave the most probs Chris!??

 

[wizmar]

Fistful

(1) Tuff guy, --Clint eastwood.
(2) Goof Movie--Pasta western.

Not my Words--As I said Anti-Gun Liberals.

And People can Carry anyway they Want 2nd (A), Use it or Lose It.

Fistful--Thanks for jumping In.

 

[armoredman]

I carried open before there was a CCW law here in AZ. Now there is, so 99% I go concealed. Once in a great while, I don't. Why? It's freakin HOT, man! You wear a covering garment in 120 degree heat! Yikes!
Bearing Arms is enshrined in our Constitution, both Federal and State, and we do so if we feel like it. I could quite legally walk to the corner store carrying my Mosin, buy something, walk back, and have nothing said, but, "Dude, hunting bears today?" Some people don't want to let Uncle Sam and Aunt Janet get thier fingerprints and addy for the CCW permit - no problem, AZ law states carry is leagl when "the weapn or holster are wholly or partially visible." Wear your OWB regular rig, and a vest that covers the top portion - the blissninnies think its a cell phone....
Reasons abound for both styles - use whatever works best for you, and stop dissin those who do things differantly.

 

[entropy]

If I ever get tried of God's Country, (WI), AZ sounds like a good place to move to. Then I could hit the range with armoredman and put some 7.62x54R downrange!
IMHO, both open carry and CCW serve to deter criminals, just as marked and unmarked and lo-pro cop cars do. Marked provide a visible patrol presence, and unmarked are a force multiplier in that any Crown Vic, Caprice, etc. could be a cop, and these also allow for surveillance and stake-outs. (As for the make of car, they could be anything these days, SUV's are becoming popular both as patrol and lo-pro vehicles.) When in the presence of someone carrying open, only the most drug-addled or suicidal of ciriminals will act, and CCW will deter some, whereas it also allows for a proper response if it doesn't.

As Robert A Hienlein put it, "An armed society is a polite society"

 

[Smurfslayer]

"1) Does it make you feel like a Tuff Guy...(2) Do you think it makes you more Secure?...(3) Your in the Open and Open to anyone that wants you, they already know you are Armed so there is No suprise? (4) No offense but it makes you look like something out of a Goof Movie.

[SS] If you wanted an open & honest discussion, then what purpose did points 1 and 4 serve, other than to spout off?


Those of Us that are trying to get Politics on our side to Change Laws for the better and Allow us to carry Concealed are being Joked Off by Carry open, there is No reason to do this. So if you want to Carry, Put it under something on your Person, you Know it Just may save your LIFE.

[SS] Your point is valid. Let's start with all police patrol officers. Those uniforms and belts that they carry the guns with are SO gawdy! Cover them up.

Wizmar, you're right. I bow to your superior baiting skills.

Fist:

Sure, we can spout off. Me advocating otherwise would rightfully pointed out as hypocritical from my own typings right here in this thread. Spouting off or ranting has it's place. But this "jihad" against open carry by so called "second amendment supporters" needs to stop. We're not talking about tolerance for someone pointing a gun at you (generally), we're discussing persons wearing holstered handguns. This fight amongst ourselves moves the 'negotiating' position that much farther towards the antis.

"Must we all have the same level of political involvement or awareness in order to shoot the bull on the internet?"

[SS] surely not. However, Wiz said:

"Those of Us that are trying to get Politics on our side to Change Laws for the better"

So, what's wiz doing? lobbying for gun control? I'm asking.


Could I put you in your place by revealing that I am Alan Gottlieb, Larry Pratt, or some other professional RKBA guy, and therefore holier than thou?

[SS] That would certainly depend on your definition of 'my place'. For the sake of civility, let's keep that to PM's And the condescension was not directed at you specifically.

As you are so committed to the cause, perhaps you would help a poor lost soul, and tell me what is an NPS.

[SS] That is an acronym for 'National Park Service'.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Why would anyone Want to carry OPEN, for What reason?

(1) Does it make you feel like a Tuff Guy...(2) Do you think it makes you more Secure?...(3) Your in the Open and Open to anyone that wants you, they already know you are Armed so there is No suprise? (4) No offense but it makes you look like something out of a Goof Movie.

Those of Us that are trying to get Politics on our side to Change Laws for the better and Allow us to carry Concealed are being Joked Off by Carry open, there is No reason to do this. So if you want to Carry, Put it under something on your Person, you Know it Just may save your LIFE.
wizmar is offline Report Bad Post

You are, of course, entitled both to have your opinion and to express it.That does not make it universally correct.

I can think of two good reasons to carry open:

(1) The Constitution of the United States says I can;

(2) It's much easier than trying to hid a double-stack 1911 under a tee shirt in hot weather.

The more we cave in to the "sensitivities" of the blissninnies and hide our handguns the way pharmacies used to have to hide condums, the less ordinary people will realize that a handgun worn on the belt of a law-abiding citizen is not an object to instill abject terror by its very appearance.

 

[fistful]

oh

 

[wizmar]

To: Smurfslayer

Sir:
I am not Directing anything towards anyone Carrying Open, These were Just statements made by people, that are trying to Cut Up the (2nd Amendment), And for Me (Everyone should have the Right to Carry a Gun on His or Her Hip or Concealed)..(If not for GUNS you and I would Not have the Freedom we Now have).

And my Friend: Guns are like a Double edge sword, its the Way they are Used that makes them Legal, and that is where the "Second Amendment Comes In."

By the Way I Like your State

 

[OpenRoad]

Because open carry is alot more comfortable. You do what you like and I'll do what I like.

 

[Curare]

It's a matter of personal preference.

I think people should carry open or concealed depending on the perceived threat.

Unless you have a black powder revolver in a holster across your chest most people won't even look twice--they assume you are an LEO if carrying open.

 

[SapperLeader]

Besides all the great reasons mentioned in this thread about education, comfort and its easier, I will give one final reason. To not be a lawbreaker. In some jurisdictions concealed carry may be forbidden or forbidden under certain circumstances. In Virginia one must carry open in restaurants and bars that serve alcohol and cannot carry concealed. If I am carrying concealed(which I do 24/7) and I want to go out to eat, I must remove my cover garment to fall within the law.

 

[RevDisk]

Thought it was the Barrett that gave the most probs Chris!??

Eh, the Barrett was taller than some one of my coworkers. It's hard to conceal a weapon that is taller than you are. Might make a good Oleg poster, though.