Why Shotguns For Guard Duty?

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It appears from what I've read that WWII era shotguns were often used for guard duty. I can speculate as to some reasons:

Cheaper/easier/quicker to make than an M1

M1's were needed on the battlefield

Shotgun will not kill someone 1000 ft away if you miss your target.

At close range a guard is more likely to hit the target with a shotgun (I assume this to be true)

I riot length shotgun was easier to carry around indoors and in trucks. trains and cars.

Anyone know why shotguns were put on guard duty?
 
Just a wild guess on my part:

1. Very close range = Shotgun is ideal
2. If a guard is relieved of a shotgun, the guards in the tower, or perimeter with rifles have the advantage.
 
I think you answered your own question: close range, ideally suited to defensive, devastation including one-shot stops (for which it is beyond compare).
Al
 
Well, can't say about WWII, but in RVN we used shotguns because that was what was given to us. We never even thought to ask why:) I don't think there is any great mystery about using shotguns on guard duty at base camps and depots, Guard duty is at night, don't have to see the sights to shoot and they are intimating as hell. My under standing that out in the bad lands guard duty was preformed with what ever the duty weapons was. Shotguns were used only if they had them.
 
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http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotguns.php

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotguns_history.php

http://ugca.org/03mar/savage.htm

http://lawofwar.org/Parks_Combat_Shotguns.htm

http://www.brucecanfield.com/uscombatshotguns.html (Essential reference for collectors, good info for anyone interested. Haven't yet seen this one for sale used- new retail is about the only choice.)

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=3543 (An essential book if you're interested in the topic. This is a pretty good price, used copies sometimes show up cheaper but not very often. 8.5X11", over 500 pages- a serious reference book here.)

...to get started. :D

lpl
 
In the Marine Corps, all prisoner chasers (which is what we called them) were issued pump shotguns. We figured it was for the psychological effect on the prisoner, and to make it easier to hit him if he ran.

I served from 1965 to 1971, and my Dad served from 1940 to 1946, and again from 1951 to 1953. He tells me that during WW II, prisoner chasers were told that if a prisoner got away from them, they would have to serve the rest of the prisoner's sentence, plus another sentence for letting them get away. He said he never heard of a prisoner escaping from anyone in the units he served in... He'll be 91 next week!

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
In a prison situation where you have the chance of a riot or mass escape attempt the shotgun will take out multiple opponents when they're close together. A fact not lost on fellow prisoners that know they too could be killed if one of their associates brings in fire from a shotgun armed guard. 7 rounds of 9 pellet 00 buck in a riot gun is more than equal to 2 full 30 round stick magazines of a SMG.
 
The question is not whether they were used, but why. We all know they were used. I've seen references to the practice of using them for military guard duty going back to the 19th century. I'll wager references could be found going back to the Napoleonic era. Certainly the US Civil War. The practice seems to have been well established by the Brits and our own military. Continental military forces, I'm not sure. I don't think German guards used them much at least I've never seen them with shotguns.

The idea that they would drop multiple foes in a riot is of course a bit of a stretch. That's not really how shotguns work, esp. with buck.

Ohio Gun Guy's idea is interesting, and the intimidation factor is useful.

Fear of ricochets perhaps? Maybe it was done out of tradition more than any deliberate plan.
 
I hunted this season a couple of times with a young man who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan in the marines. He's on VA disability, wounded by a IED, but has his limbs and gets around just fine. He told me they issued him a Mossberg for guard duties in Afghanistan. So, apparently, it's still SOP. I'd go along with the night duty, close range power line of thought.
 
Why?

Because the nation's military expanded so much, so fast, they were DESPERATE for weapons- ANY weapons. The 'secondary' needs like guarding prisoners, securing supplies, guarding installations etc. could be met by shotguns. At that time there were thousands of commercial shotguns sitting in warehouses. Many of those shotguns were bought en masse by the government, property stamped, and set up either as trench guns for front line use, as riot guns for secondary uses like guard duty, and some were used in training aerial gunners, and to provide R&R (recreation and relaxation) for servicemen in shooting skeet and trap.

When my dad (US Army Air Corps, went ashore on Operation Torch in North Africa) went through basic training, he said he learned the manual of arms with a chunk of 2X4. Does that help you understand how near run a thing WW2 was?

The US before World War Two ran what was called a cadre military, and that on a shoestring. The cadre concept was set up to expand as the need for more troops came about, but maintaining a large standing army was seen as too expensive. You might also remember that little economic bump in the road, known as The Great Depression. In 1930, US troop levels had shrunk to 256,000. Fifteen years later at the end of World War Two, the US had 12,123,000 servicemembers in uniform. That sort of expansion calls for a LOT of logistical support, including weapons.

Swearengen's book (linked in my post above, and referred to here often) gives some idea of the desperation behind the search for functional weapons in the early days of WW2. Anyone with any basic grasp of logistics knows you want weapons of the same type, so you only have to train in one manual of arms, have one set of spare parts, train one set of repair/support personnel, etc, right? Not when the wolf is nipping at your heels, you don't.

Pearl Harbor was a surprise to the population of the US, but WW2 had been spinning up for years in Europe (see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/world_war_2.htm ). Desperate European nations were seeking war materiel anywhere they could find it, and some production orders were directed to US businesses. When the smoke cleared at Pearl Harbor, a lot of those orders were diverted for US use. Swearengen says:

Infantry weapons were in painfully short supply. This was especially true for those security detachments being embarked for overseas areas, as well as those guarding American coast lines and critical installations. Shotguns were called for, as they had been in World War I.

The War Department purchased riot-grade guns from all major American gun companies.


In addition, the shotguns still in inventory from World War One were put back into service. Remember Elmer Keith? He worked for the War Department during part of WW2, testing shotguns- see his book, Shotguns by Keith ( http://www.osba.us/book/by+elmer+keith.aspx ) or his Wiki bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith .

Canfield (also linked in my post above) says,

On July 1, 1940, it was determined that there were 21,187 military shotguns in the government's inventory. The majority of these were Winchester Model 1897 shotguns, but the number also included some Remington Model 10 and model 11 shotguns, along with some Winchester Model 12s. Many of the latter three types were in riot or training configuration, and the majority of the "combat shotguns" on hand in 1940 consisted of WWI-vintage Winchester Model 1897 trench guns.

Many tens of thousands of shotguns were added to these numbers during WW2, and shotguns were supplied as trench guns, riot guns, in sporting configuration for training and recreation, and a few were modified into aerial gunnery training platforms to train the gunners who protected heavy bombers. Fighting shotguns were produced by or procured from: Ithaca (Model 37), Remington (Model 11, Model 31, Sportsman ), Savage (Model 720), Stevens (520 and 620) and Winchester (Model 1897 and Model 12). How many? I'm not sure anyone knows exactly.

Shotguns had pretty much a 'backwater' role in WW2, they definitely weren't on center stage in the show. There were a good number of old-hand Marines in the Pacific who liked them, having had long experience with shotguns in the 'banana wars' and other small conflicts between WW1 and WW2. But even so, shotguns served to arm, train and even entertain thousands upon thousands of US servicemembers during the war.

fwiw,

lpl
 
Thanks for the great info Lee. My father was also part of Operation Torch, and was later critically wounded in Anzio. He never talked much about his experiences, but I do remember him mentioning training with a chunk of wood.

rd
 
Shotgun for guard duty.

I agree with reloader fred.
My dad mentioned being a "prisoner chaser" in the Army, during WWII, and beiing issued a mod '97.
He said the prisoners were considered dangerous and one of them was jawing one day, and stated that he doubted that Dad would shoot him and if he did, that a few pellets wouldn't hurt much. Dad told him that he had used buckshot to hunt deer with before, and he had killed two hundred pounders with it, that hadn't moved from the spot where he shot them.
He also told the prisoner that he was a lot wider and slower target than a deer, and that he would be aiming at the biggest part on him; his belly if they were facing, or his butt if he was running away.
The guy shut up and never made a break.
I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a 12ga pump full of 00 buck, in that situation.
Thanks for your time.
 
When I was in training as an armor crewman at Knox, the guards at the ammo depot had pump guns. I thought about this, because it was a distinct difference from the rusted-solid M-16 they gave us for guard duty. (This was 1991.)

What occurred to me, was that because they were guarding sensitive items, if they ever had someone charge the gate, the needed to stop them fast and hard. If it was MY job, that's what I would want. (Tank rounds are a couple grand each, they had vast bunkers full of them.)
 
Several reasons for the shotgun as a guard weapon are the same as why prisons always used a scatter gun as far back as the blunderbuss days.

Its a short barreled, handy weapon.
Much shorter than the service rifle or musket and more usable in tight spaces.

The intimidation factor.
Everyone is impressed by the shotguns huge muzzle and those who know what a shotgun is know that they're going to get more than just hurt.

Effectiveness.
Nothing is more effective at close range than a shotgun, and guards are usually in close proximity to prisoners.
This also works for groups of prisoners who know that other people can get hurt too if the guard fires at one prisoner.

Short range.
Unlike the musket or rifle the shotgun isn't going to be sending bullets far off and doing other damage.
Prison compounds are often around ammo dumps, headquarters areas, and other areas that might be vulnerable to longer range weapons.

So, the guard shotgun has the same advantages as the home defense or police shotgun: A short, powerful, intimidating, and effective weapon that doesn't require pin-point aiming and isn't going to kill the general 1/2 mile away by accident.
 
I had a conversation with an old WWII vet once who told me it was all about intimidation factor, and that he agreed with that philosophy from his experience.

Les
 
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