Why use +P ammo?

[RedAlert]

I've often wondered why some folks seek to use +P ammo in a self-defense concealed carry weapon.

Won't a .38 special grievously injure an opponent? How about 9mm? Or what about .45ACP, and on and on? I'm sure that there is someone out there trying to figure out to CC a 500 S&W.

There seems to be a sentiment of needing more and more power and yet those extra FPS/lbFT make it more difficult to control the weapon and I'm of the opinion reduces your accuracy in a stressful situation.

Do out elite special forces see a need for these uber-powered rounds? All through the wars we've been in military calibers have been sufficient to the task.

My opinion is that 99% of the gun carrying public would be better served with a mid-power caliber and devote more time to range practice.

 

[stoky]

I agree with your conclusion, especially in a small pistol.

 

[ewlyon]

In a defensive scenario you may only get one shot, so that shot should do as much as it can out of the gun hat you choose to carry.

 

[sigarms228]

I notice little difference when firing +P compared to regular ammo and no change in accuracy.

I use Speer Gold Dot 124+P and Federal HST 147 +P since I use it also in my Walther PPS that has only a 3.2 inch barrel and the +P may allow for better penetration and expansion than regular load.

Often times only the +P is available in my favorite SD loads.

As like anything else one should use what works best for them.

Won't a .38 special grievously injure an opponent? How about 9mm?

The goal is not to just injure the threat but to stop the threat as fast as possible and ideally before they can harm you.

 

[BSA1]

It will help to understand what "+P" means. The simple answer is nobody agrees. By that I mean there are no universial standard defining what specs a bullet must meet to be "+P".

Expansion of hollow-point bullets is dependant on a large part on it's velocity. Velocity of the bullet will vary depending on the barrel length of the gun among other things such as barriers (heavy clothing for example) before it hits the target.

I have two boxes of 9mm Hornady factory ammunition. Both use the same 124 gr. XTP bullet. One box is labeled Custom with a muzzle velocity of 1110 fps. The other box is labeled American Gunner +P with a velocity of 1175 fps. So is the additional 65 fps. the reason for the +P label? I don't know. I do know more velocity means higher chamber pressure.

However based on.my previous comments about how important velocity plays in bullet expansion I prefer having the extra advertised 65 fps of the +P round.

 

[TomJ]

When choosing ammunition, I'm looking at a number of things including accuracy, sufficient penetration, reliable expansion and that it feeds reliably. I do not use the same ammunition in all my guns, as what works best for one may not work best for another. There are combinations of guns and ammunition where +P is necessary to reach the enough velocity to ensure expansion. If it's not necessary to achieve the desired results, you're better off with stand pressure rounds to avoid unnecessary wear on your gun and having lower recoil. I would recommend doing some homework before picking a SD round, as opposed to blindly picking one based on preconceived notions.

 

[usp9]

There seems to be a sentiment of needing more and more power and yet those extra FPS/lbFT make it more difficult to control the weapon and I'm of the opinion reduces your accuracy in a stressful situation.

That is your opinion, however not everyone shares that opinion.

Do out elite special forces see a need for these uber-powered rounds? All through the wars we've been in military calibers have been sufficient to the task.

Yes, many examples of this. Military force is mainly based on high explosives. Small arms are indeed more powerful than normal civilian pistol ammo. NATO 9mm is pretty close to +P energy, though it varies a bit from member to member. SF units may indeed use weapons and ammo that civilians do not have access to.

My opinion is that 99% of the gun carrying public would be better served with a mid-power caliber and devote more time to range practice.

Again, that's an opinion. Personally I don't see a big difference when shooting regular ammo or my carry ammo though practice ammo is usually standard and my carry is +P.

Many people choose their carry ammo based on it's performance in a particular gun and/or for many other factors such as availability. Feeding, firing, accuracy and ejection are the important features most people desire.

 

[DeepSouth]

Why not ?

More FPS = generally more penetration and better expansion.

 

[j1]

Why? Because the 38 special out of a 2 " snubby can use a little help.

 

[jmr40]

Do out elite special forces see a need for these uber-powered rounds?

Military spec 9mm ammo is pretty much the same as +P 9mm ammo. Always has been. Most USA made 9mm ammo has traditionally been very mild compared to the rest of the world and military loadings.

The 357 mag was developed because the slower 38's and 45 ACP loads of the 1920's and early 30's were failing to get the job done. If more speed didn't help we would have never needed 357 mag.

My 9mm +P loads are running 1250 fps from a 4" G-19. That is almost exactly the same as 125 gr 357 mag loads from 4" or shorter barrels. Shooting 115 gr loads at 1100 fps just doesn't make sense.

 

[eldon519]

Also worth noting military 5.56 brings more to the table than standard .223. And as mentioned, same for 9mm NATO.

In regards to whether or not I pick +P, I look at the particular load. Especially with 9mm 124, sometimes it does better at standard velocity, sometimes it does a little better with the +P variety. The premium LE brands tend to be pretty good about publishing their gel tests. Or if you've got a compact or subcompact, something a +P might help the bullet do its best.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Why use +P ammo?

Cause it's better to give than receive!

The more ooph the better as long as you can control it.

Remember folks, the point of shooting them is to STOP them, not kill them nor 'grievously injure' them. It is to STOP them, right now.

Deaf

 

[SDGlock23]

+P is perfectly fine as long as the bullet can withstand it, which generally isn't an issue with factory ammo. I carry it, not exclusively but I don't have any issues with it either. Sometimes when using a short barreled gun, +P isn't a bad idea to get ~50-100 extra fps to help aid in bullet expansion, again this isn't the case with every bullet, but some bullet designs only start to open up at certain velocities. As to whether it's really going to be the difference in stopping the threat or not, not likely, but in some instances it can offer peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I use +p in my short barreled guns, where velocity will be reduced, as a way to gain a few feet per second over standard pressure cartridges. I'm trying to help ensure that a bullet expands when hitting a target.

I barely notice the increased recoil, and don't believe it slows my shooting at all.

 

[Miked7762]

It will help to understand what "+P" means. The simple answer is nobody agrees. By that I mean there are no universial standard defining what specs a bullet must meet to be "+P".

SAAMI standardizes specifications for +P cartridges just as it does for standard pressure cartridges.

 

[.452]

It will help to understand what "+P" means. The simple answer is nobody agrees. By that I mean there are no universial standard defining what specs a bullet must meet to be "+P".

Expansion of hollow-point bullets is dependant on a large part on it's velocity. Velocity of the bullet will vary depending on the barrel length of the gun among other things such as barriers (heavy clothing for example) before it hits the target.

I have two boxes of 9mm Hornady factory ammunition. Both use the same 124 gr. XTP bullet. One box is labeled Custom with a muzzle velocity of 1110 fps. The other box is labeled American Gunner +P with a velocity of 1175 fps. So is the additional 65 fps. the reason for the +P label? I don't know. I do know more velocity means highwe chamber pressure.

However based on.my previous comments about how important velocity plays in bullet expansion I prefer having the extra advertised 65 fps of the +P round.

SAAMI does recognize and quantify several +P rounds:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/VelocityPressureData.pdf

Generally +P is up to 10 percent more pressure than the "normal" SAAMI load.

 

[SeanSw]

I only concern myself with +p when choosing .38 special as it seems to be the most watered down. I also wouldn't call 125gr @ 1250fps from a 4" barrel much of a .357. That's basically equal to nato spec 9mm from a service length auto. It's meant to do better.

 

[LeonCarr]

What DeepSouth said, short and to the point.

Just my 02,
LeonCarr

 

[stressed]

+P is just what standard ammunition power was before 1972. After, they watered everything down. Europe still has some hotter standard 9mm loads. +P duplicated what standard 9mm loads were before 1972.

 

[stressed]

It will help to understand what "+P" means. The simple answer is nobody agrees. By that I mean there are no universial standard defining what specs a bullet must meet to be "+P".

Expansion of hollow-point bullets is dependant on a large part on it's velocity. Velocity of the bullet will vary depending on the barrel length of the gun among other things such as barriers (heavy clothing for example) before it hits the target.

I have two boxes of 9mm Hornady factory ammunition. Both use the same 124 gr. XTP bullet. One box is labeled Custom with a muzzle velocity of 1110 fps. The other box is labeled American Gunner +P with a velocity of 1175 fps. So is the additional 65 fps. the reason for the +P label? I don't know. I do know more velocity means higher chamber pressure.

However based on.my previous comments about how important velocity plays in bullet expansion I prefer having the extra advertised 65 fps of the +P round.

I believe you mean +P+ is where "nobody agrees" and there is no standard for.

 

[TruthTellers]

90 grain .380 bullet @ 1000 fps ~200 ft/lbs

90 grain .380 bullet "+P" @ 1100 fps ~240 ft/lbs

125 gr .38 bullet @ 950 fps ~250 ft/lbs

125 gr .38 bullet +P @ 1050 fps ~300 ft/lbs

That's no piddly amount of power being added, that's significant enough and is the reason why people carry +P. Accuracy is dependeant on the gun and how a person shoots it. Were the recoil and accuracy the same between +P and regular P, there'd be no reason not to use +P.

 

[TruthTellers]

I believe you mean +P+ is where "nobody agrees" and there is no standard for.

+P+: for that time you want max power, but don't want to buy a bigger gun.

 

[BobWright]

Standard velocity ammunition has a dismal past record when used in gunfight situations. There was a case in which a man was shot with a .38 Special, the old 158 gr. RN lead bullet. I believe it was an attempted suicide, and the bullet traveled around his body, riding in a groove between ribs, entering near the breast bone and exiting his back. Only superficial damage was done.

Other cases where a police officer was killed after his duty .38 Special failed to stop a crazed killer. The list goes on and on. For this reason the .38 Special, and other defensive cartridges were given more power to better expand JHP bullets, to provide deep penetration to reach vital organs and expand to open up a wound channel to allow loss of blood to fill the cavity.

At close range nearly any bullet performs well, but under varying conditions the +P stuff is far more reliable.

Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

Deaf Smith:

Remember folks, the point of shooting them is to STOP them, not kill them nor 'grievously injure' them. It is to STOP them, right now.

I believe the term is still Deadly Force as opposed to Stop Force?

Bob Wright

 

[billybob44]

My "Take" on +P (or +P+)

Some of the other 'Old Timers" on here can tell us the years, but it seems?? in the '70's most all ammo was loaded pretty "Hot".
Ever shoot any Super-Vel?? for example..In a .357, or .44Mag. they were HOT!!

Nowadays -NOT so much..Most loads are watered down..So to make up for that, some of the calibers are loaded up to where they used to be years ago.
These loads are called "+P" or "+P+".

IMO, the ammo mfgs. have loaded down most loads, across the board, and their +P models are a way to spend less on standard loads+make more $ for REAL--(+P) Loads.....Bill.

PS: This is another reason to reload your own ammo...