Why would most burst-fire weapons not be Monk-approved?

[Skribs]

I am referring to Tony Shalhoub's "Monk" in the thread title. Why is it that a lot of 3-round burst weapons are standard for a 20-round magazine? As someone OCD for numbers, this honestly baffles me. I know if I were the one designing the gun, I'd have to opt for a 21- or 18-round magazine, just so all of your bursts are the same.

I *could* see the argument that multiples of 5 are better, but how many guns don't? Most high-capacity pistols have something like 13, 17, or 19 rounds, and I see 26-round magazines offered for the 6.8 SPC ARs. So why can't a weapon with 3-round burst have a 3X round magazine?

I'm sorry if this is kinda out of left field, but I'm on a break at work and was looking up machine pistols on the mother-of-all-reliability (wikipedia) and saw the Beretta 93R, and my OCD flared up...

 

[rcmodel]

Because 20 rounds magazines came along way before 3-shoot burst selectors did in all firearms platforms that use it.
Prior to that, a select-fire weapon was set on either semi-auto, or rock & roll.

Kinda like the chicken and the egg question, but in this case, we know for sure the 20 round mag came way before 3-shot burst did.

rc

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I would prefer full auto myself and use my finger as the burst selector.

 

[Sam Cade]

my OCD flared up...

One in the chamber and twenty in the magazine.

21/3=7

It works out so now you can relax.

 

[Skribs]

I was thinking about that Sam, except there's another weapon designed with a 25-round magazine (FAMAS). So you have 25 or 26 rounds, neither of which is a multiple of 3.

Also, after firing 21 rounds, you load a new magazine and have 20. You would have to do a lot of extra work to have every subsequent reload give you 21 rounds.

I never relax. I always find another pattern that breaks down.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

As rcmodel said, the magazines were around before the burst (at least on the M16). Consider that the 20-round magazine for the M16 was, partially at least, a holdover from the 20-round magazines in the M14. But the new weapon used smaller, lighter rounds and more of them could be carried...so the 'smart' guys decided to increase the magazine capacity to 30 (a pretty good idea) making the magazine longer, no longer straight-sided, and more prone to failure due to the longer spring (maybe not so good an idea).

Berettas came with 15-round magazines, if memory serves, which is barely worth it in a 93 because of the ungodly cyclic rate.

Speaking of patterns, I recently had to reset our vault combination and I used a Fibonacci sequence.

 

[Strykervet]

Uh, because they didn't care. It doesn't matter.

Also, on the burst trigger, they don't always reset to three rounds. Sometimes you flip it to burst and only one round comes out. Or two or three. Each pull after that will be three.

So now, you get a possiblity of 1,2 or 3 rounds. In this light, the 20 or 30 round mag is the best possible combination with a burst trigger for OCD shooters. This works even better with a 20rd, mag and one in the tube. They did it just for OCD shooters, while not having to make big design changes in the trigger for the rest of us.

BTW, if you ever NEED burst, only one round will come out before it resets. They never work as intended, and the whole time I was in the army, I seldom used it outside of just playing around or training to shoot moving targets while I was running myself. Almost useless.

 

[MrM4]

Say it with me: "Trigger Control, Trigger Control, Tiggers Control"


Brust a good for NOTHING, if you can not control your finger enough to get off the trigger once your off target you probelly shouldnt be holding that weapon.

Some people feel that they are a good idea for new shooters, i even thought that at one time. But tiem has shown me that the best thing to do for a new shooter is either dont put as many in the mag or use the Semi setting at first, many FAs have them.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

If it makes you feel any better, the FAMAS takes STANAG magazines, so you could put a standard 30 rounder in one ... the French just choose to use mags with a goofy round count.

 

[mortablunt]

^ Well, they are THE FRENCH.

I think that it was so that the soldier would know to reload after the unusually short burst went out.

 

[Sam Cade]

the FAMAS takes STANAG magazines

The G2 does. The F1 used the proprietary 25 round magazine.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Also, after firing 21 rounds, you load a new magazine and have 20.

Not in the real world.

In the real world if you fight til bolt lock then reload, fight to bolt lock then reload etc. you are doing it wrong.

 

[Zombiphobia]

this may be a dumb question, but have to ask because I want to know if I could ever own one: Is there a weapon on the civilian market that features semi-auto, burst, AND full auto?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Is there a weapon on the civilian market that features semi-auto, burst, AND full auto?

There are some transferable pre '86 HK models out there that had that option I believe. HK's burst system allowed for that where the M16 system does not.

I'm sure there are others but HK's are more common. Common being relative of course for a pre 86 transferable item.

 

[Prince Yamato]

There actually is a (non-standard) m-16 trigger group that is safe-same-auto-burst. I forget who makes it, but I've seen receivers engraved for it. I don't know if it's a post-sample though.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I forget who makes it, but I've seen receivers engraved for it.

Sounds like something John Norrell would cook up, he makes all kinds of cool NFA gadgets.