Caseless Weapons

[Marko Kloos]

One of the main functions of the brass case is to transfer heat out of the weapon, something that it does very well. Caseless ammo doesn't offer the "disposable heat sinks" like metallic cases do, and one of the main problems with the G11 ammo was cook-offs.

The metallic cartridge is near-perfect for its job, and that's why cartridge technology has hit a plateau: there's simply nothing out there that does the job better. Caseless ammo has size and weight advantages over metal-cased ammo, but it comes with its won set of inherent problems, and those outweigh its potential benefits. Otherwise every major military in the world would be fielding caseless small arms ammunition by now.

 

[Owen]

Lets not forget the seal that the brass case provides. One of the reasons the G11 was so complicated was that the action had to seal the gun. People complain about the M16 venting into the action, imagine how much an unsealed caseless a ction would vent into the action.

owen

 

[DougCxx]

....and one of the main problems with the G11 ammo was cook-offs...

-Yes, like I said, well-built but poorly engineered. It's a bullpup design, and fully-shrouded as well. All bullpup designs tend to have temperature problems because the breech end ends up closed-in (what's that British one...?), and I am not a P.H.D. but I'd bet that adding a full shroud around the gun isn't going to help it stay any cooler. If they wanted to build a bullpup design for heavy use, then they should have seen that they would need a thick, exposed heavily-finned/ribbed barrel to get rid of heat. It almost seems like whoever designed the G11 didn't have enough experience with shooting firearms to know how hot they can get, even from just a few fast shots--much less a couple hundred.

The metallic cartridge is near-perfect for its job, and that's why cartridge technology has hit a plateau: there's simply nothing out there that does the job better.

-A couple hundred years ago, there were probably a lot of people who thought this way about muzzle-loading guns. <
~

 

[Nightcrawler]

He has a point. I mean, in a hundred years, do you think armies will still be using 9x19mm, 5.56mm, and 7.62x51mm? Energy weapons, as many think of them, aren't as versatile as firearms and would be grossly overcomplex. Projectile weapons are here for a good while, I think.

I just DON'T think we'll still be using vintage 1950s designs in 2104.

 

[MrAcheson]

Yeah how long did it take for them to get the metallic centerfire cartridge right? 30 years? There was pinfire and rimfire and volcanic cartridges. And drawing rifle cartridges in brass didn't work for a long time so Custer was carrying copper cased .45-70 rounds at Little Big Horn.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Okay, how about this then.

There's no reason the cartridge casing has to be made of brass. Steel and alloy cases are common now.

Would it not be possible that in future, synthetic casing could be developed?

Also, how about making cartridges more compact through better propellants? Imagine something as powerful as .308 winchester in a straight walled, synthetic case the size of a .30 Carbine round.

Just ideas.

 

[Owen]

There are polymer cases with steel (I think) bases floating around. I believe there is a contract out for the development of "A family of Lightweight Weapons" that stipulates their use. It would be a major weight savings. The case in 5.56 is more than half the weight of the ammo.

owen