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Senate overrides Doyle veto on gun toting
11:40 PM 1/22/04
Phil Brinkman State government reporter
Wisconsin State Journal
January 23, 2003
Friday
For the first time in 12 years, the state Senate on Thursday overrode a governor's veto, reviving a bill that would lift the state's long-standing ban against carrying concealed weapons.
The 23-10 vote, one more than the two-thirds needed to override, sends the bill to the Assembly, where the vote is too close to call.
If Republicans who control that house can muster the 66 votes needed to defeat Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's veto, the bill would become law over the governor's objections.
"We're elated but we're humbled," said Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire, the bill's chief sponsor in the GOP-led Senate. "The big vote is next week. People got to pray until then."
The last time either house voted to defeat a veto was in May 1992. But one has to go back to 1985 to find the last override by the full Legislature.
Democrats put off the vote as long as they could Wednesday, blocking consideration of the measure on the day Doyle was due to give his State of the State address. Senate Majority Leader Mary Panzer rescheduled it for Thursday morning, when the vote was taken without comment or debate.
Six Democrats joined the Senate's 18 Republicans in voting for the measure in October. Democratic leaders needed to sway at least three back to the fold to sustain the veto. In the end, only Sen. Mark Meyer, D-La Crosse, crossed back.
"Two votes doesn't seem like a lot, but in this particular issue, two votes was 500 miles away from where we needed to be," said Senate Minority Leader Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton.
Gun advocates hailed the vote as a victory for personal rights, saying the bill gives ordinary citizens the means to defend themselves. The bill requires citizens to pass a background check and undergo training to be licensed.
"With the licensing process in the bill, the people who are going to pursue this are, by definition, law-abiding," said Donald Kingsbury, associate director of the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement.
Fears that the law would lead to shootouts over petty disputes have not been borne out in the 46 other states that allow concealed weapons, said Darren LaSorte, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.
"Not a single (state) in history has repealed its law," LaSorte said. "The debate is over as to whether this is good or bad. What we know is it gives people an opportunity to defend themselves."
Doyle said he was disappointed the Senate "abandoned the men and women of law enforcement," many of whom oppose the bill.
"I don't believe that we are safer when people are carrying guns in school zones" or when police make traffic stops not knowing whether the person has a concealed weapon.
Democrats had been looking to four possible swing votes in the Senate to back the governor: Meyer, Russ Decker of Schofield, Julie Lassa of Stevens Point and Bob Wirch of Pleasant Prairie.
While Meyer changed his position, the others said concerns over the bill's impact were overblown.
"I'm a firm believer that the NRA is wrong, that this is not going to reduce crime," Wirch said. "But the people who hate this legislation are wrong, too. It's not going to lead to the Wild West. I think it will have minimal impact. Just because you carry a weapon with a license doesn't exclude you from the laws on the books."
Meyer said political factors and additional research caused him to change his vote.
# "I'm a minority member of the Wisconsin state Senate. The only leverage I have ..
# . is through my Democratic governor in the East Wing. To vote to override him today would be spending political capital that I won't be able to use to benefit my constituents," he said, adding that he supported the bill in concept.
He said he had hoped the Assembly would remove some provisions he objected to, including one requiring businesses to post signs if they want to bar a licensee from bringing a weapon on their property.
Meyer declined to address speculation that he may not seek re-election this year and thus could afford to risk retribution from the NRA.
Although the bill passed the Assembly 64-35 in November, two votes shy of the two-thirds needed to override the governor, Republicans were optimistic about their chances when it comes back to them, perhaps as early as Tuesday.
That's because two of the original votes against the bill were by Republican Reps. Luther Olsen of Berlin and John Townsend of Fond du Lac.
Now, "they're on board. All of the Republicans are on board," said Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Union Grove, the chief sponsor of the bill in the Assembly. Republicans control the Assembly 59-39.
Olsen and Townsend declined to respond to requests for interviews Thursday. But if they do opt to override, at least one of the seven Democrats who backed the bill originally would need to switch his or her vote to keep the provision from becoming law.
Three - Reps. Marlin Schneider of Wisconsin Rapids, Wayne Wood of Janesville and Terry Van Akkeren of Sheboygan - said Thursday they intended to vote in favor of an override. A spokesman for Rep. Barbara Gronemus, D-Whitehall, said she was likely to support an override based on the mail and phone calls coming into her office.
Reps. Gary Sherman, D-Port Wing, John Steinbrink, D-Pleasant Prairie, and Amy Sue Vruwink, D-Milladore, declined to discuss their positions.
Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuer, D-Kenosha, said he was "confident" he'd have the votes to sustain the veto, then amended that to "cautiously confident."
"It's kind of like when you're walking on ice," he said. "If you think it's thin, don't step hard. And I'm hoping for not too many warm days."
Calling does work.
AV1611 out...
11:40 PM 1/22/04
Phil Brinkman State government reporter
Wisconsin State Journal
January 23, 2003
Friday
For the first time in 12 years, the state Senate on Thursday overrode a governor's veto, reviving a bill that would lift the state's long-standing ban against carrying concealed weapons.
The 23-10 vote, one more than the two-thirds needed to override, sends the bill to the Assembly, where the vote is too close to call.
If Republicans who control that house can muster the 66 votes needed to defeat Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's veto, the bill would become law over the governor's objections.
"We're elated but we're humbled," said Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire, the bill's chief sponsor in the GOP-led Senate. "The big vote is next week. People got to pray until then."
The last time either house voted to defeat a veto was in May 1992. But one has to go back to 1985 to find the last override by the full Legislature.
Democrats put off the vote as long as they could Wednesday, blocking consideration of the measure on the day Doyle was due to give his State of the State address. Senate Majority Leader Mary Panzer rescheduled it for Thursday morning, when the vote was taken without comment or debate.
Six Democrats joined the Senate's 18 Republicans in voting for the measure in October. Democratic leaders needed to sway at least three back to the fold to sustain the veto. In the end, only Sen. Mark Meyer, D-La Crosse, crossed back.
"Two votes doesn't seem like a lot, but in this particular issue, two votes was 500 miles away from where we needed to be," said Senate Minority Leader Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton.
Gun advocates hailed the vote as a victory for personal rights, saying the bill gives ordinary citizens the means to defend themselves. The bill requires citizens to pass a background check and undergo training to be licensed.
"With the licensing process in the bill, the people who are going to pursue this are, by definition, law-abiding," said Donald Kingsbury, associate director of the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement.
Fears that the law would lead to shootouts over petty disputes have not been borne out in the 46 other states that allow concealed weapons, said Darren LaSorte, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.
"Not a single (state) in history has repealed its law," LaSorte said. "The debate is over as to whether this is good or bad. What we know is it gives people an opportunity to defend themselves."
Doyle said he was disappointed the Senate "abandoned the men and women of law enforcement," many of whom oppose the bill.
"I don't believe that we are safer when people are carrying guns in school zones" or when police make traffic stops not knowing whether the person has a concealed weapon.
Democrats had been looking to four possible swing votes in the Senate to back the governor: Meyer, Russ Decker of Schofield, Julie Lassa of Stevens Point and Bob Wirch of Pleasant Prairie.
While Meyer changed his position, the others said concerns over the bill's impact were overblown.
"I'm a firm believer that the NRA is wrong, that this is not going to reduce crime," Wirch said. "But the people who hate this legislation are wrong, too. It's not going to lead to the Wild West. I think it will have minimal impact. Just because you carry a weapon with a license doesn't exclude you from the laws on the books."
Meyer said political factors and additional research caused him to change his vote.
# "I'm a minority member of the Wisconsin state Senate. The only leverage I have ..
# . is through my Democratic governor in the East Wing. To vote to override him today would be spending political capital that I won't be able to use to benefit my constituents," he said, adding that he supported the bill in concept.
He said he had hoped the Assembly would remove some provisions he objected to, including one requiring businesses to post signs if they want to bar a licensee from bringing a weapon on their property.
Meyer declined to address speculation that he may not seek re-election this year and thus could afford to risk retribution from the NRA.
Although the bill passed the Assembly 64-35 in November, two votes shy of the two-thirds needed to override the governor, Republicans were optimistic about their chances when it comes back to them, perhaps as early as Tuesday.
That's because two of the original votes against the bill were by Republican Reps. Luther Olsen of Berlin and John Townsend of Fond du Lac.
Now, "they're on board. All of the Republicans are on board," said Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Union Grove, the chief sponsor of the bill in the Assembly. Republicans control the Assembly 59-39.
Olsen and Townsend declined to respond to requests for interviews Thursday. But if they do opt to override, at least one of the seven Democrats who backed the bill originally would need to switch his or her vote to keep the provision from becoming law.
Three - Reps. Marlin Schneider of Wisconsin Rapids, Wayne Wood of Janesville and Terry Van Akkeren of Sheboygan - said Thursday they intended to vote in favor of an override. A spokesman for Rep. Barbara Gronemus, D-Whitehall, said she was likely to support an override based on the mail and phone calls coming into her office.
Reps. Gary Sherman, D-Port Wing, John Steinbrink, D-Pleasant Prairie, and Amy Sue Vruwink, D-Milladore, declined to discuss their positions.
Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuer, D-Kenosha, said he was "confident" he'd have the votes to sustain the veto, then amended that to "cautiously confident."
"It's kind of like when you're walking on ice," he said. "If you think it's thin, don't step hard. And I'm hoping for not too many warm days."
Calling does work.
AV1611 out...