WI: retired cops won't be able to carry, either

[Monkeyleg]

Amidst of all the gnashing of teeth over the failure to get a veto override on our concealed carry bill, I forgot one thing: this was the only chance for retired WI LEO's to get concealed carry.

When HR218 passed, AG Peg Lautenschlager punted the ball to the legislature.

The authors of the CCW bill were pretty adamant that retired LEO's not have any more rights than other citizens.

So they included the language for implementing HR218 in the Personal Protection Act.

Thus, Doyle screwed the cops as well.

If you're a law enforcement officer in Wisconsin, make sure you do not contribute any money to the Badger State Sheriffs Association, or any other law enforcement group that represents the top brass (police chiefs, etc). They helped Doyle screw you.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I guess I wonder why exactly retired cops should have different rights from every one else.

They're civilians. Get used to it. In fact, get used to it when still a LEO--you're still a civillian.

 

[StopTheGrays]

And if a retired LEO was found to be carrying concealed, do you believe they would be arrested? Maybe by a trooper, Madison PD or some metro Milwaukee area LEOs, I doubt by anyone else.

I will think otherwise after I read about a retired LEO arrested for CCW.

 

[tellner]

Good. If they aren't carrying tin for their job they don't deserve any special job-related privileges. When they are just "civilians" let them ride the pipe the same as the rest of us.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Thus, Doyle screwed the cops as well.

Heh. Serves them right for donning uniforms and taking a public stand against civil rights for commoners.

 

[cracked butt]

Heh. Serves them right for donning uniforms and taking a public stand against civil rights for commoners.

Its usually the elected Sheriffs that do this, they are nothing but politicians themselves. I live in one of the most, if not the most conservative county in the state, yet our sheriff has come out publicly against CCW on a few occasions. :banghead:

I don't think retired police should get any special rights either above other citizens, but it shows what kind of lunatic we have as a governor.

 

[GruntII]

HR 218 has langauge to allow cops to carry regardless of any local restrictions,active duty and retired. Several states have no ccw and the bill was worded to allow cops to carry even if there was no ccw system innthe satte. Cops still haveto follow the other rules like no guns in bars or where alcohol is sold etc. In this case HR218 was written specifically to trumph any local prohibition to cops and retired cops carrying.

Not saying I agree with the implications of a special class , as created by 218 but the bill was written to trumph local/state prohibitions against carry by active/ retired cops.

 

[Monkeyleg]

True, GruntII, but as I said, AG Peg Lautenshlager didn't want any part of it. So she handed it off to the state legislature.

I've heard rumors of some departments certifying retired LEO's, but it's just that: rumors.

The Democrat leadership in WI doesn't just hate guns, they hate cops. The only use them as props when it suits their purposes.

 

[GruntII]

True, GruntII, but as I said, AG Peg Lautenshlager didn't want any part of it. So she handed it off to the state legislature.

I've heard rumors of some departments certifying retired LEO's, but it's just that: rumors.

The Democrat leadership in WI doesn't just hate guns, they hate cops. The only use them as props when it suits their purposes.

I understand abotu the local LEO's and the local politics but it wouldn't have any effect on a copper on vacation. The current DOJ would most likely push the issue if they did that. I was against 218 even though I am amember of LEAA as I felt it should have included ccw holders. But the Mantra was one step at a time.

When the McCLure Vokmer act was passed with it's travel provisions the states fault it, and some still make a big show of being against it but if you follow the law you will eventually prevail.

 

[1911 guy]

Why is this even a story?

First off, I'm not gonna bash the cops, they should be allowed to carry. I was under the impression that a new federal law provided for this and pre-empted state law.
Having said that, all stories like this do is add to the invisible and false wall between "us" and "them". So what if Detective So-and-so can't carry? Neither can the 4' 9" Grandma who'se been mugged three times and can't fight it out with a 6' gremlin. The real story here isn't the retired cops, it's every citizen of Wisconsin that just got screwed out of the ability to legally level the playing field with the BG's.

 

[Janitor]

Good. If they aren't carrying tin for their job they don't deserve any special job-related privileges. When they are just "civilians" let them ride the pipe the same as the rest of us.

Actually, even when they're carrying tin for their job they are still civilians.

 

[Strings]

Dick... this needs to be sent in a press release to every LEA in the state. Maybe THIS will wake 'em the heck up, and they'll stop helping to screw us over...

 

[AF_INT1N0]

+1 Standing Wolf,

Serves em right...

As far as I'm concerned Police should be able to own carry what ever the citizens are allowed to carry...

Which means

Whatever in Vermont, Alaska

No NFA in other states

Pinned lowers and < 10 rds Mags, No 50BMG in California, Maryland, Mass, etc.

Harsh language in DC and New York

Don't like it.... Don't rally against citizens rights.

 

[xd9fan]

nor should they get special treatment. The armed law-abidding, Constitution loving citizen should ALWAYS get first crack at increasing their "Rights". Which means me and you and retired cops if they believe it too.

IMHO being a retired cop should not make you better then me. Nor should a retired cop have more or less "Rights" than me.

This post IS NOT a slam against retired cops.....but is a retired cop going to protect my family better than me???? Are they going to follow me around 24/7 for my personal protection???

Conceal Carry holders lets be consistant please.

 

[Sam]

Law needs to read the same for everyone, PERIOD.

Don't care to hear any wiseacre commentary from the LEO"S on this one either. They are public servants, not privileged princes. A concept often forgotten.



Sam

 

[Gatman]

When I said something similar on another gunboard I was told that I was wrong and crazy. That eventually everyone could CCW in other states. I am glad to be amongst like minded people who feel the same as I do.

 

[Optical Serenity]

Good. If they aren't carrying tin for their job they don't deserve any special job-related privileges. When they are just "civilians" let them ride the pipe the same as the rest of us.

Actually, your congressmen did in fact believe that retired officers should have the priviledge to carry. Its funny how HR218 is a step towards more gun rights for everyone, and yet all you so-called Pro-2nd Amendment people here are so blind by your hatred for governement and law enforcement, you forget what the end result is.

Don't complain when you as a "civilian" don't have gun rights, you don't want them to be there.

Law needs to read the same for everyone, PERIOD.

Don't care to hear any wiseacre commentary from the LEO"S on this one either. They are public servants, not privileged princes. A concept often forgotten.

Hey Sam, what exactly is a "wiseacre" commentary? I'd like to know? Also...yes, we are public servants, however, if you are so ignorant that you fail to see how HR218 is a step in the right direction towards all civilians carrying concealed, well, I guess then its pointless to try to show you the light.

So you are saying, "If I can't do it, no one can" ? Thats absurd...First lets get folks used to all LEOs, current and prior, carrying...then we can move on to all law abiding citizens.

Its usually the elected Sheriffs that do this, they are nothing but politicians themselves. I live in one of the most, if not the most conservative county in the state, yet our sheriff has come out publicly against CCW on a few occasions.

Darn good reason I live in Georgia where us LEOs want law abiding citizens to carry guns.

 

[Maxwell]

The only people with assured gun rights are those powerful enough to ignore the law or rich enough to buy their way around it.

I believe the saying goes "Hang together, or we'll all hang seperatly".

 

[Tim Burke]

I suspect what happened in WI is that the mechanism to certify retired WI police, as mandated by HR218, was included in the recently vetoed CCW bill. If so, retired WI police will not have the proper credentials to carry in WI, or anywhere else that doesn't have Vermont style CCW.
However, retired police from other locales, that do have the proper certifications from their home, will be permitted to carry in WI, as the Federal law supersedes the state law.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Absolutely right, Tim Burke. Each department is free to establish its own re-certification guidelines. But almost every chief was reluctant to do so. They asked the AG to issue guidelines.

The AG, as I said, punted to the legislature.

And now, with a couple of possible exceptions, no department is willing to move forward.

 

[Sam]

Well OS I do NOT see how it leads to a gain for Joe Citizen.
Why don't you explain it for us all.

Sam

 

[Strings]

>Actually, your congressmen did in fact believe that retired officers should have the priviledge to carry. Its funny how HR218 is a step towards more gun rights for everyone<

I have to agree: how exactly is this a step forward for everyone? Will LEO organizations be more inclined to get behind the CCW push because of it? I somehow doubt it...

>and yet all you so-called Pro-2nd Amendment people here are so blind by your hatred for governement and law enforcement, you forget what the end result is.<

Us, meet Them. Sorry to burst your bubble man, but I don't hate cops. There's just a whole passel of 'em I don't trust further than I could throw 'em.And I think, given how some of their organizations have been fighting tooth and nail to stop CCW here, I have reason to feel that way...

 

[Trip20]

First lets get folks used to all LEOs, current and prior, carrying...then we can move on to all law abiding citizens.

BS.

I don't agree with having to get people "used to" ______, in order to get a right I should have now.

In addition, it's absurd to assert that CCWing LEOs, current and prior, are going to make "the people" comfortable when Joe Public asks for his right a few years later. :banghead:

 

[GruntII]

Interesting thing may come out of this and not just in Wisconsin. Because HR 218 passed if a state Peace Officers Standards and Training Commission and various departments can now be sued for refusing to certify retired officers or refusing to establish such procedures. Because by act of congress the right to carry after retirement is now part of a certain clas of workers rights and to deny siad right or not even to attempt to comply with the law opens up a new area of labor law to sue the bosses and employers under.

As I said before I was against creating a special class of ccw for cops, I think all citizens of good standing should be allowed such without government interference but i will use my 218 rights as needed when traveling if my state permit is not accepted.

 

[tellner]

Actually, your congressmen did in fact believe that retired officers should have the priviledge to carry. Its funny how HR218 is a step towards more gun rights for everyone, and yet all you so-called Pro-2nd Amendment people here are so blind by your hatred for governement and law enforcement, you forget what the end result is.

Pull the other one. It's got bells on. Calling me a government-hater is really pretty funny. I'm an old-style liberal tending who would vote Labor or Socialist if he lived in Europe. And I've always been a strong supporter of law enforcement.

No, the issue here is that American law enforcement as an institution has been quick to support gun control for "civilians" and even quicker to demand special privileges for itself. It's your representatives, selected by you, who speak for your union. The FOP has been consistently hostile to CCW everywhere it comes up. Likewise the Chiefs of Police's Association. Can we expect this to suddenly change simply because people who used to wear badges get a privilege not granted to the Little People? Hardly.

Don't complain when you as a "civilian" don't have gun rights, you don't want them to be there.

I can't make a bit of sense out of what you're saying here.

So you are saying, "If I can't do it, no one can" ? Thats absurd...First lets get folks used to all LEOs, current and prior, carrying...then we can move on to all law abiding citizens.

Darn good reason I live in Georgia where us LEOs want law abiding citizens to carry guns.

Plenty of cities and states have let retired cops carry. We haven't seen a tidal wave of support for gun rights for the rest of us in, say, New York or Chicago as a result. Do you seriously expect me to believe that just because there's a federal law that does the same thing the situation will magically change? Have we seen law enforcement professional groups, unions or the same take a public stand for universal CCW because their nest has been feathered? Hardly.

It's nice that a lot of individual police in Georgia are comfortable with gun rights for all. It really is. But many of the rest of us would take it a bit more seriously if we saw them actually do something about it besides ensuring their own privilege.