WI: retired cops won't be able to carry, either

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You don't have a clue what I've done either, or been involved in. But you seem awfully willing to tell me what I should think, despite not having that knowledge.

You know, on second thought, just count me out on this conversation. It's not worth getting into a debate over who who deserves "props" for what they agree to do and the risks they take. It's not worth it anymore.
 
buzz_knox said:
You don't have a clue what I've done either, or been involved in. But you seem awfully willing to tell me what I should think, despite not having that knowledge.
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You're the one who equated delivering food to LE. Then claimed you know what it's like because you did a ride along. Sorry, but those 'experiences', while I'm sure were quite terrifying for you, aren't the same.
 
isp2605 said:
You're the one who equated delivering food to LE. Then claimed you know what it's like because you did a ride along. Sorry, but those 'experiences', while I'm sure were quite terrifying for you, aren't the same.
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Rodney_king.jpg

​
Can't we all just get along?​
 
Old Dog-

I realize most LEOs are good hard working under appreciated, folks who for the most part just want to to do their job, live their lives, and go home safe. (I still assert that you need to consider replacing your representatives) Police work is difficult on the Body, Mind and Soul. You have every right to be safe in your person, home, and vehicle after you retire, and off duty.

No one here is denying your right.

However, once 218 passed, the FOP, the Chiefs group, the Unions, all fell silent. :scrutiny:

This alienation by those we tried to help, is a kick in the nuts. :(
We want to know why it is they deny us our right.

We know it's not you.

Like I said before the vast majority of the Police (those I have had the pleasure of interacting with at least) on this board are damn fine people.

But what are people to think when your line officers say one thing but your representatives say another?
 
Oldtimer said:
This may end up being the last time I post or respond to other posts in THR. When I became a member, THR was, without a doubt, the BEST gun forum going, but this particular thread is totally shameful!

For 31 years of my life, I wore a badge, strapped on a firearm and went into the community to keep the peace and enforce the laws. I rarely got thanked for what I did, but I didn't become a police officer to win any popularity contest. I joined because I wanted to do my part in keeping the community safe. It bothered me when, for the most part, I responded to crimes AFTER they had taken place, but the "Thin Blue Line" is exactly that. All I could do was investigate those crimes in an efficient manner, so that the bad guy might eventually be captured.

During my 31 years of service, I had two "contracts" on my life, merely for having performed my duties. Neither of those "contracts" were solved, so I don't know how safe I am as a retired police officer. I also had a SERIOUS verbal threat
on my life, from a "certified" criminally insane person, who MAY eventually be released.

I often conducted "Neighborhood Watch" meetings within the community, and often spoke about firearms. Believe it or not, I have ALWAYS been pro-2nd Amendment AND pro-CCW rights for citizens!
I wasn't alone, for most of my "brother" officers felt the same way, that an ARMED community was a SAFER community. One particular incident stuck in my mind through the years, and that was the armed citizen who assisted the police officer in Austin, Texas. Had that armed citizen not been there and volunteered to help, the crazed sniper would have killed even more people!

I didn't become a high-ranking police officer, and I couldn't figure out why the "brass" of so many law enforcement agencies were ANTI-gun. My "street cop" voice was never heard by anyone who mattered, but the "brass" were allowed to speak freely to the press and government officials.

Yes, I am a "citizen"! I put my life on the line, though, as a professional police officer! Had I not chosen that profession, I probably wouldn't need to look over my shoulder as often as I do. Had I not become a professional police officer, how many of YOU would have taken my place?

How many times have I heard, "Oh, I couldn't be a cop!", or, "It's just too dangerous for me!"? How often have I heard, "You cops don't get paid enough for what you do." and, "They couldn't pay me enough to do what you do!"?

How many times have I been called a "Pig", a "Nazi", a "thug with a badge", etc.?

How many more times will I have to defend my "brother" officers by explaining that the MAJORITY of them are decent, hard-working, dedicated and professional? YES, there are rotten police officers, but they do NOT comprise the majority!

So, now that I'm a retired LEO, I'm supposed to return to being a "citizen"? That line that a few of you used irked me greatly! I was a "citizen" when I was an active-duty police officer, and as a retiree I am STILL a "citizen". NO, I don't feel that it is a "privelege" that I have, to still carry a concealed firearm. The day may come when it might be a necessity to defend myself, merely because I wore a uniform and a badge for so many years!

How many of YOU have put in long hours and patrolled dangerous areas during riots or "civil unrest"? How many of you have not been allowed to have your "regular" days off, or have had to cancel vacation time, due to "exigent circumstances"? How many of you have been spat upon, but had to hold your position on a riot control formation?

I could go on and on with what is on my mind, but I'll leave it with this....your local police officers and Sheriff's deputies ARE something "special"! They're performing their duties, going into locations YOU wouldn't go, seeing things that might make you puke, and are EASY targets while in uniform. You folks "CCW" for many reasons, but you're NOT easily recognizable as "targets". As a retired LEO, I still carry, but not just for myself. Hey, if I can save someone elses life, it will be due to the extensive training I have gone through AND directly related to what I believed in and performed for so many, many years!
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NO disrespect for you or your years of service, I just finished my 15th year of wearing a badge in one way or another. I have to disagree with you. I knew what I was letting myself in for when I put a badge on, I knew the dangers, the ups, the downs, I'm a citizxen that choose a dangerous and demanding profession, I have had a contract on me also (it was quickly rescinded as I was taught to play old school when that happened). I deserv e nothing special in the way of consideration beyond what I was promised in the way of pay and benefits when I started. I deserve nothing beyond what the average citizen gets. I too have always been pro 2nd amendment because I have realized we citizens loose our gun rights, my profession was next. I was against HR 218 before it passed and now that it has passed I still am working for all citizens to keep and their gun rights and expand the full limits of the rights that have been unconstitutionally boxed by the jerk politicians.
Cops are no more entitled to special treatment than anyone else be it gun rights, DUI, or Domestic Violence. I have a ccw permit and I use it, even with hr 218 I don't go places that do not recognize my permit out of conviction. The I've spent many years doing a dangerous job rap just don't cut it, we(The citizens who are police) choose the job and stayed with it, it aint' the military anyone can walk away at anytime.
 
Monkeyleg said:
Why do threads concerning LEO's always have to degenerate into name-calling and "us vs. them" arguments? :mad:
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You notice tho it goes downhill when someone says "I can't so you can't." If they would just think it thru what they said. "If I can't then you can't." That's exactly the mentality the legislature would use if they resended HR218. "If we don't let the cops, why should we let you."
You have to eat that elephant one bite at a time. It took over 12 yrs to get HR218 passed. It's taken sometimes more than that for some states to get on board and pass CCW. And then some states like IL still haven't, but that doesn't mean you spit out the one bite of the elephant. You just keep nibbling away. Will IL ever pass CCW? Won't be this year. Probably won't be next year. But just keep nibbling away and eventually we'll get that elephant. If any of you have been involved in union negotiations. It's no different tactic. You don't go into negotiations expecting to get a 50% raise, all insurance paid, and 100% full retirement after 20 yrs. You know that won't happen. So what do you do? You whittle away at it a little each contract. And that's what we have to do with CCW. Whittle a bit at a time. Talk to your legislators. Write them letters. Visit them during session. Don't rant and rave. Leave the cammo jackets and "kill bambi" hats at home. Be logical and sensible. They'll usually listen. And those who don't, put your money and mouth behind those who will. But I know few people contact their legislators. I've talked to legislators and they say they seldom get any feedback and when they do it's the usual 2 or 3 people each time. That phone call doesn't take but a couple of minutes. The letter costs you 39 cents. The face to face may get you more mileage but it shows you are concerned.
BTW, I can carry under HR218, but my wife and kids can't. Sure would be nice if they could too. And that's the way a lot of the street cops feel. Most have families who they'd like to have that ability.
 
isp2605 said:
BTW, I can carry under HR218, but my wife and kids can't. Sure would be nice if they could too. And that's the way a lot of the street cops feel. Most have families who they'd like to have that ability.
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I agree 100%, this isn't simply an "us V them" battle. But those (read politicians and the gun grabber groups) who seek to out law all guns only have to dvide our house. We will do the damage ourselves.

This is not the time for fingerpointing or other forms of animosity. We need to stand together as one voice and make the politicians listen. The messege needs to be one of solidarity, not that of a bunch of spoiled kids.

All we do with these us versus them diatribes is to create doubt and muddy the waters for the gun grabbers.
 
>You have to eat that elephant one bite at a time<

But here's the rub: the representitives of the police will push away from the table after they've "got their's", saying "We're full". It'd be a LOT easier to back this if we had uniformed officers actually backing us during OUR fight for CCW, but it seems we never do: they seem to reserve their presence for the antis...
 
Hunter Rose said:
>You have to eat that elephant one bite at a time<

But here's the rub: the representitives of the police will push away from the table after they've "got their's", saying "We're full". It'd be a LOT easier to back this if we had uniformed officers actually backing us during OUR fight for CCW, but it seems we never do: they seem to reserve their presence for the antis...
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There are a whole lot of cops supporting CCW. Unfortunately, like most of the population, including no doubt alot on this board, who never make the effort to call a legislator to express an opinion and desire. It's not that they're fighting CCW, it's nothing more than apathy like most of the population. Few cops even called or wrote to support HR218. Most I've been in contact with didn't even know it was up for a vote. I know there are still cops who don't know about HR218 and it's been law for 19 months. Don't confuse laziness and apathy for anti.
 
Hunter, the cops who back this bill--including members of the organizations I mentioned before--don't get paid to show up in Madison. They're not even allowed to wear uniforms.

The chiefs and the sheriffs who showed up were on their departments' payroll to do so. I recognized many of them from last sessions, which begs the question: should we document how many hours these anti-gun chair-polishers are spending lobbying against our bill on the taxpayer dime?

The rules on lobbying are as clear as the Milwaukee River: here.

Wanna bet that some of these brass were on the taxpayer dime and talked to legislators more than a few times?

If the Assembly or Senate votes were held on a weekend, you can bet your last buck that we'd have hundreds of people show up.

But most folks can't afford to take a day of vacation or an unpaid day from work.

The very few anti's can, because they don't work.
 
Oldtimer you are missing the point....big time.
GruntII great post.

No special "rights", and their should not be a special class of americans. I dont care who you are or what you did. Its about principle. Its not pro-cop its not anti-cop.
 
>The chiefs and the sheriffs who showed up were on their departments' payroll to do so. I recognized many of them from last sessions, which begs the question: should we document how many hours these anti-gun chair-polishers are spending lobbying against our bill on the taxpayer dime?<

And I told you when you first suggested it that we should, Dick. We're playing a gentleman's game with a chimpanzee on crack...
 
If the Assembly or Senate votes were held on a weekend, you can bet your last buck that we'd have hundreds of people show up.
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Is there a rule against them doing that? Maybe next time we should encourage the leadership to schedule the votes on a weekend in order to allow more people to show up?
 
But our politicians work so hard during the week as it is.




OK - I'm sorry - I couldn't even write that with a straight face.
 
Oldtimer said:
They're performing their duties, going into locations YOU wouldn't go, seeing things that might make you puke, and are EASY targets while in uniform. You folks "CCW" for many reasons, but you're NOT easily recognizable as "targets".
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I LIVE in the type of place you're describing. And a since I can't afford a car, I make a much easier and recognizable target than you probably would.
 
Oldtimer said:
How many times have I heard, "Oh, I couldn't be a cop!", or, "It's just too dangerous for me!"? How often have I heard, "You cops don't get paid enough for what you do." and, "They couldn't pay me enough to do what you do!"?

You folks "CCW" for many reasons, but you're NOT easily recognizable as "targets". As a retired LEO, I still carry, but not just for myself. Hey, if I can save someone elses life, it will be due to the extensive training I have gone through AND directly related to what I believed in and performed for so many, many years!
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For me hearing about the danger gets old. I remember when in Illinois they went to get the same benfits for the highway workers as the Police had. All the Police I knew would say you will never see it because their is way more danger in Police work. They went back like 50 years and when they looked at the figures you had a 7X better chance of getting killed or injured working on the highways. Pull up the most dangerous jobs on the net and see were they rate LE work. Then compare what they make and the benefits with what people in way more dangerous jobs make. The difference is if you are in LE and get killed or injured on the job it will make news coast to coast. If you are just one of us mutts and something happenes you will be lucky to see it in the local paper
 
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