Wikileaks shows Mexico isn't getting guns from US

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All the expensive "aid" we give to Mexico also find their way to the cartels, since many in the Mexican police, military, and paramilitary have two bosses - sometimes under threat of death.

I'm not just talking about the recently exposed corruptions of the BATFE.

We fund and arm that which we claim to fight. This goes beyond Mexico as well, to much of South America.

Any further discussion would violate the politics rule here, so I'll just stop.
 
It is more palatable for the politicians and media to blame the situation on American gun shops and anonymous straw purchasers than it is to blame it on a government and a society that is so riddled with corruption and incompetence that the criminals are effectively running many parts of the country.
 
I love it. I have read thru this thread, and some tout governments as corrupt, some blame gun dealers. Some have said CNN & MSNBC will inform us ( Iwouldn't believe one word from either left wing network). But it all boils down to this. ALL governments are corrupt, and ours (US) is probably the worst of them. Ever wonder how all the little third world folks learned corruption? We vote them into office, that's how.
 
Peeps, we might be getting ahead of ourselves here. The cables still claim that 'assault rifles' and handguns are primarily coming from our side of the border. It's the EBRs the leftists are going after, not the nonexistent RPGs.
 
Neverwinter #24
How are carrying a gun, driving while intoxicated, and smoking marijuana even remotely comparable?
Click to expand...

Banning carry of guns by legal carry permit holders in certain "gun free zones" does not stop people with bad intent from illegally carrying, anymore than it stops similar scofflaws from driving while drunk (which is banned) or smoking pot (which is banned).
 
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Our president is going to apologise for the error and our BATFE is already diligently working to get our guns into the hands of mexican criminals so the Far Left and the Mexican Govt can blame us.
 
So can we get one of those cheap full auto guns from Guatemala, and do we still have to pay the fees? LOL, just kidding, but it makes you say hmmmm to everything they tell us. It all turns out to be a big long bullxxxx story. Obama should really get his act together or he is going to go down as the worse president we ever had. Not to get too off track here, but why are his homeland security advisors introduced as devout Muslims, they don't say this political appointee is a devout Catholic or devout Protestant, what's with the devout Muslims in homeland, link
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dhs.asp
 
Carl N. Brown said:
Banning carry of guns by legal carry permit holders in certain "gun free zones" does not stop people with bad intent from illegally carrying, anymore than it stops similar scofflaws from driving while drunk (which is banned) or smoking pot (which is banned).
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I understand. There is no reason ban carry of guns by permit holders, drunk driving and pot smoking since scofflaws will do it anyway.
 
The drug cartels are probably getting a bigger proportion of their weapons from Mexican army depots than from the USA.
 
Well, of course they're "coming from Guatemala" since that is the country bordering Mexico to the south, but where are these arms really coming from? What is the real source? And why isn't this of prime importance to Mexican and US intelligence?

Could Hugo Chavez be doing this to further destabilize democracies in the region?
 
Well, of course they're "coming from Guatemala" since that is the country bordering Mexico to the south, but where are these arms really coming from? What is the real source? And why isn't this of prime importance to Mexican and US intelligence?

Could Hugo Chavez be doing this to further destabilize democracies in the region?
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I would assume the bulk of the guns are from Mexican military/law enforcement that have defected to the cartels. This gives them a large cache of modern small arms like grenades, M16s, etc.

A small portion of their guns DO come from the USA. I'd figure the only guns they'd be very interested in from here are those to supplement their collection that are hard to come by on the black market or from military hands. Such as big-bore rifles like the Barret as well as 1911 pistols. They are very big on jeweled pistols as gifts and so they'd have a high demand from American handguns like the 1911 that are fairly rare south of the border. Defected Army units don't have shiny new Colts and there's really only one place to get those.

Ironically I'd bet that most of their AKs come from north of the border. Since the Mexican Army uses mostly US-made weapons like the M16/M4 they probably don't have many places to get AKs from. And the fact that US civilian AKs are semi auto is simply not an issue for them because it only takes about 5 minutes to change that. I've seen several photos of MAK90 sporters - thumbhole stocks and all - sitting in cartel caches.
 
One aspect to remember about Mexico is that it's functionally illegal for Mexican civilians to own weapons of any kind.

So, there's no real difference in how "major" or "minor" the "gun crime" is. So, it's just as illegal to have an SBR as a .22 Henry lever.

So, there has always been a lot of quiet trade across the US border among the Mexican middle class. It being a pretty significant feat to buy your own house, there is a cultural "thing" in that your friends and relatives will make you a "house warming" gift of a firearm to protect your new house. Since these are gifts, often they are selected for appearance as much as utility.

Which seems to be the market F&F and PGR tapped into, in the way only centralized bureaucrats can when operating out in "flyover country." Which has now jumped up and bitten (AT)FE most rudely. Which means the testimony surrounding the investigation of slain BP will likely have to be "closed" or redacted.
 
Many of those guns going into Mexico come, directly or indirectly, from Venezuela, sent by Ugo Chavez, a man OUR president called "a great Latin American statesman". Of course, Mr. Obama is not going to criticize his good buddies, even though the Chavez-Castro-Ortega intent is to destabilize Mexico and create chaos for the U.S.

Jim
 
THE DARK KNIGHT said:
Ironically I'd bet that most of their AKs come from north of the border. Since the Mexican Army uses mostly US-made weapons like the M16/M4 they probably don't have many places to get AKs from.
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There are more than enough AKs in Latin America without the cartels buying semiauto clones in US gunshops and converting them. You have to remember that the USSR and the US both armed governments and insurgents in Latin America during the Cold War. The Soviets sent cases of AKs to their allies, and the US sent M16s to counteract them. Both sides sent heavier weapons as well. In addition, Venezuela is still producing AK variants for their military and rumor has it they are providing military aid to insurgents all around Latin America.
 
While many of the firearms, and grenades, rocket launchers, etc come from elsewhere a decent percentage do come from the USA.

However it is not primarily civilian sources, most of these are military weapons sold to the Mexican government, a percentage of which then get diverted to cartels.
The government is corrupt at many levels, and anything the government has cartels with billions of dollars and strong desire can acquire.



If you trace many of the full auto AR style weapons they capture they often trace back to US manufacturers and the US government, with the Mexican government purchase in the middle.
A lot of Mexico's domestic police forces are equipped with M16/M4/AR15 weapons purchased from the US, and anything the police have gets to the cartels.
The US government also assists the Mexican government with arms and other things to fight the cartels, a percentage of which then get diverted to cartels.





Certainly a small percentage of US civilian weapons do get used by the cartels, in fact I know they are particularly fond of US handguns even though they don't play any significant role in the fighting.
The one portion of the population in Mexico that may in fact depend on US civilian weapons to be well armed is much of the civilian population that is not connected with the cartels.
A part of the population both the cartels and the government wish to keep disarmed.



They get more and more brutal down there all the time.
Now they are skinning people they capture alive:
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/04/terror-in-tepic-two-men-skinned-alive.html
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/04/nightmare-in-nayarit-another-body-found.html

Good reason to always fight to the death. Torture is a poor way to influence conflict for that reason, it removes all motivation to surrender to a superior force even when defeat in the battle is certain, increasing casualties for the winning side in future battles.
 
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The former Soviet Union supplied tons of small arms and amunition to Nicaragua back in the early 1980's and a lot of it has made its way north to Mexico.
 
100% of U.S. made firearms confiscated in Mexico come from the U.S.

They should have used the above stat, it is entirely accurate.
 
Statistics is Fun-Duh-Mental.

Old time border patrolman Skeeter Skelton acknowledged that there were non-military caliber handguns going to Mexico in trade for military caliber handguns taken back to the US in quasi-legal collector trade decades (generations) ago.

All the way back, one of the revolutions in Mexico was aided and abetted by the semi-official shipment of Winchesters to the rebels.

So, yeah, some guns in Mexico get smuggled from the US (just as some guns in the US get smuggled from Mexico, as well as a lot of the drugs).

But it is no where near 90% of the drug cartel guns. The original statistic was that of the guns suspected to be US origin and submitted to ATF traces by Mexican officials, 90% did trace to US origin. The US DOJ OIG report claims that ATF is frustrated that Mexican officials don't allow them access to the siezed guns in Mexican custody; the Mexican officials tell the OIG they rarely get useful info from ATF traces and have little incentive to submit guns for tracing. The vast majority of drug cartel weapons, 80% or even more, do not appear to be of US origin. The 90% figure is at most 90% of 20% or 17% of the total.

Plus siezed guns are not all drug cartel guns in a country with a defacto ban on private arms. US legitimate businessmen who work in Mexico have reported that among otherwise law-abiding Mexicans there is a rampant scofflaw attitude toward the gun laws: they would rather risk a gun charge than the risk of a family member being kidnapped without resistence.
 
HOO Fan said ''That is why it galls me when people say the right leaning AM stations need to give equal time to differing opinions. The left wing, anti-gun TV media doesn't give equal time to differing opinions...''

THIS is probably the most sensible think I've ever read on the subject...
 
Wow, this thread has really went downhill.

Its obvious Mexico isn't getting its fully automatic weapons and high explosives from the US. Anyone who thinks otherwise either is uninformed or has an agenda.
 
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