Wildcats - a natural progression to reloading?

[Leaky Waders]

Hi Guys (and lone Gal who may frequent this forum),

Are reloading wildcats a natural progression to reloading?

Do any of you wildcats lament even starting to go down this road?

Besides the initial expense of custom style dies and reforming brass or purchasing limited runs of brass...is there anything special you do to the brass to make it last longer than regular brass?

I really enjoy reloading. It's fun. When dies are on sale...I usually buy them whether or not I have a gun in that caliber...usually my friends do, but not always.

Right now I'm reloading for economy (28 gauge) and economy + fun (45 long colt & schofield & 45/70) and precision (22-250 & 7mm08 & 257 wby).

One person at our public range shows up every Friday with some 257 JDJ (I think it's called) and really has some accurate rounds. I'm not really interested in the 257 JDJ because I have a 257 wby...but I was looking at a large bore wildcat that looks like it would be really fun to reload for (to me big bullets and cavernous cases are easy to handle and easy on the eyes).

Do I need it? no

Do I want it? yes

Is it practical? Well, I have other calibers that can do similar as the wildcat claims, and certainly every niche of hunting filled with my present inventory...but still...I have this itch.

What are your thoughts on wildcats? Were they a passing fad in your reloading career or were they a fun addition that kept on giving?

L.W.

PS I don't want to bias anyone with the round I'm considering...just speaking wildcats in general.

 

[cfullgraf]

I load two wildcats, 7mm International Rimmed and 38/45 Clerke. I also load for an obsolete cartridge, 6.5x54 Kurz Mauser.

I started 7mm Int Rimmed as inexpensive way to get into unlimited IHMSA silhouette class. The round was new at the time, mid 80s, and easy to load for.

I just happened to like 38/45 Clerke and built an M1911 so that I could have fun with it.

The 6.5x54 kurz Mauser was my grandfathers and I get to enjoy the shooting the rifle once in a while.

I enjoy forming the cases in small quantities. It is a nice change of pace for reloading. I enjoy shooting something different from the rest of the crowd.

I have pondered designing my own wildcat, but there really is not anything out there already that my "wildcat" could out perform. So, I just dream about it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have had one wildcat (.357 Herrett) and two obsolete caliber guns (.33 WCF and .38-44 Target) requiring comparable case forming.
I find it a chore not worth the trouble. The .357 H barrel was soon traded for a .30-30, the .33 WCF sold to a collector, and the .38-44 will soon follow it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

30ppc largo and 30HRT were mine.

After awhile you come to the realization that your one of a kind wildcat does absolutely nothing a .308 won't do all week long with a bag of $65 on sale lapua brass. At which point you turn your efforts to fine tuning and micromanaging every aspect of "the load" for top accuracy.

No in the end I'd say the chase for a few FPS even if through many think is advanced (wildcatting) handloading is still actually pretty amateur


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

 

[Leaky Waders]

Hmm so it's 2:1 against so far? Any other opinions?

The round I'm looking at is an expensive proposition too...a new rifle, dies and brass are going to be quite an investment. I guess it's actually a proprietory round with two commercial loadings...so technically not a wildcat.

How much brass would be a lifetime supply for a wildcat/proprietory cartridge if I went that route? 500 pieces?

Why did you guys get the wildcat you did? Was it a good deal or did you like the platform or just want to try something different?

 

[R.W.Dale]

30HRT or Herrett Tactical Rimless I got a smoking deal on

30 PPC largo was 100% my own invention that was and improved version of 7.62x39 using the 6mmPPC shoulder and case body shape but deep enough to clean up a x39 chamber

This was done to provide a more stable case with a more positive shoulder

 

[cfullgraf]

How much brass would be a lifetime supply for a wildcat/proprietory cartridge if I went that route? 500 pieces?

Why did you guys get the wildcat you did? Was it a good deal or did you like the platform or just want to try something different?

7mm Int. Rimmed is an easy cartridge to form. Neck 30-30 cases to 7mm and then fire form. Fire forming rounds could be used for practice as no special fire form load is necessary. So, as long as 30-30 is around, there is no problem making more cases.

I was shooting IHMSA silhouette at the time and a rechambered Contender barrel was reasonable in cost for getting into the Unlimited Class.

38-45 Clerke is a bit more involved, but base case is based on the 45 ACP so lots of base cases around. To form the 38-45, there is a form die, then a trim die, and finaly run through the standard sizing and expander dies. I can make up a couple hundred cases in the evening.

All that was needed to shoot this cartridge was a new barrel for a M1911. At the time I got into it, Bar-Sto sold the barrel. I have since made a dedicated M1911 for the round. I first read about the 38-45 Clerke in the seventies and again in the late eighties. I like the M1911 and the round peaked my interest.

6.5x54 Kurz Mauser cases can be made from a variety of cases. 7x57 works about the best but I have made them from 308 Win, 7-08, 270 Win, and a couple others. A form die, trim die, and standard reloading dies.

It allows me to shoot and enjoy my grandfather's rifle, which would not otherwise be possible.

I have the form die set for 221 Remington. I purchased them when it looked like 221 Remington might become obsolete. A bit more involved with forming them and unfortunately 222 Remington is a better base case, but not as available as it once was. But, cases can be formed from 223 Remington.

These cases are not too difficult to form. I am not sure I would get involved with cases that required annealing or some other involved process. Like I said before, I enjoy forming cases in small quantities and I do not shoot these firearms alot.

With form dies and custom gunsmith work, an "off the shelf" wildcat can get expensive. Design you wildcat and the cost of reamers really increases the cost.

A life time supply of brass depends upon how much you shoot the firearm and how long the case last. So, this is difficult to answer. 100 or so cases for the Mauser lasts me decades because I shot the rifle rarely. I have several hundred cases for the 7mm Int Rimmed Contender because I used to compete with it. It does not get shot much these days either. I shoot the 38-45 Clerke the most, several hundred per year. I have 600-700 cases on hand and I get about 1% failure at each outing.

Hope this helps.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

From the voice of experience ... you don't want to start down that road. You don't want to do this any more than you would want to run around with women of loose virtue or frequent dens of iniquity where there's smoking and consumption of alcohol and gambling! Oh sure, it starts harmlessly enough. "Oh, but I'm gonna' do it just this one time" ... but it's a slippery slope, she's a vile temptress and there's absolutely no turning back ... when she's gotcha' ... SHE'S GOTCHA'!

What sane person would want to make a .30 Mauser Rimmed pistol cartridge? Why would you want to make a 7.92 X 33 Rimmed cartridge? What earthly use is there for 7.62 X 39 Rimmed and 7.62 X 45 Rimmed cartridges or even nuttier ... a .30 Carbine Rimmed? Why would you want to make bottle-neck .30-357 Magnum and Maximum cartridges? How about a .25 (acp) Rimmed from a 22 Hornet? Why would you want to take a .225 Winchester case and fiddle it to death until you turned it into a 6.8 SPC Rimmed? Why would you want to create a 4/5th sized Martini Henry cartridge in .30 caliber and then go on to even more ridiculous versions in larger and smaller ratios from .22 to .40 caliber? Why would you want to buy a P-13 Enfield Troop Trials Rifle just so you could wildcat 8 X 68S RWS (which you can hardly even find anymore) into .276 Enfield /RL-18000C variation and then have Hawk make a run of .282" diameter bullets for you so you could shoot it? We haven't even touched on the projects that are still lurking in the back of my fertile, twisted, sick mind that I haven't started yet.

I tell you all this as one truly addicted. I cannot help myself. It's disgusting and I know it. But, do I have any regrets? AB-SO-LUTE-LY NOT! (but then, I'm a hopeless addict ... so what would you expect me to say?)

 

[eldon519]

7mm-08 was a wildcat of yesteryear. Now it is a commercial cartridge. In my mind, the need for wildcats has been constantly evolving. Decades ago when there were far fewer cartridges, wildcats were a great way to fill the gaps between rounds. Nowadays we have more cartridges than we know what to do with or that the industry can support. Just about every mainstream application is covered and heavily overlapped.

If you have truly unique needs or a highly specialized function you wish to perform, there may be a legitimate purpose for a new wildcat in your life. Of course whether or not you need something shouldn't necessarily stop you from doing what you want. If you just want to dabble in the novelty, you could start out making new 7mm-08 cases from .308 or .30-06 brass. That could allow you a test run without requiring the expense of new custom weapons, tools, gun parts, etc.

 

[JimKirk]

There are two wildcats that I would look at with wild eyes...

The 25 WSM and the 6.5 WSM. I know that there is the 257 WBM and the 264 Win. ... but these two(WSM) don't have belts ...and I hate belts(unless they are needed).

Jimmy K

 

[ranger335v]

"Are reloading wildcats a natural progression to reloading?"

Natural, I don't know. But common; yeah, a lot of guys grow into it. And most then grow back out of it.

There is nothing really useful a wildcat can do that can't be done with some common cartridge for much less hassle and expense so what's the point of spending the money and dealing with the trouble for no real gain? If someone just wants to stand out at the local range or gun shop why not color the hair green and install a 2 inch nose ring?

 

[redneck2]

At one time, I thought it would be cool to have a lot of different calibers. After a while, I figured out that it's very expensive, very time consuming, and I ended up not using 2/3rds of them.

I have two wildcats that I load. One is a .357 Herrett in a Thompson Contender for deer hunting. Through multiple trades I got it free. Another is a custom that fits the goofy Indiana deer laws.

IMO, for most people they are not worth the extra money and time. A 180 grain bullet @ 3,000 fps does the same damage no matter what shape the case was that fired it.

 

[jmorris]

Not a "need" for wildcats but some enjoy playing. 7mm br is the closest I have annealing the brass makes it last longer.

 

[Leaky Waders]

"If you just want to dabble in the novelty, you could start out making new 7mm-08 cases from .308 or .30-06 brass. That could allow you a test run without requiring the expense of new custom weapons, tools, gun parts, etc."

Thanks that is great advice...I could make 257 wby from 7mm mag too. I think I'll do just that and see how much I appreciate the extra case prep etc.

OK, so the cartridge I was thinking about was 475 turnbull...it looked like a neat proposition but I already have a 45-70 so there would be plenty of overlap and case prep would be an expensive proposition should brass ever dry up. Presently unloaded brass is like $1.50 a piece and loaded ammo $5 per piece if you can find it. The initial outlay of rifle, dies, and brass is really up there and i'm not sure how much i could recoup should I decide my 45-70 was enough.

I really appreciate ya'lls input.

L.W.

PS So my green hair and 1 3/4 inch nose ring is not enough afterall? I need to go a full 2 inches?

 

[highlander 5]

My first "wildcat" was reforming 30'06 brass to 7 mm Mauser as Mauser brass was nowhere to be found. Next was 357 Herret and 7 mm TCU for a T/C Contender. Latest was 40/65 made from 45/70 brass and most recent 300AAC Blackout from surplus 223 cases. I've had several people ask me about rifles that they can't get brass for and so far I found out how to make the brass or buy it on line. Bottom line is what do I want the cartridge to do and is there a factory equivalent? My choice were made on the fact that the 357 and 7 mm were for a pistol and there were no choices that would work in the Contender. The 40/65 was picked as I can't take the pounding from my 2 45/70s anymore and the 300 Blackout get me a 7.62x39 equivalent round that works in the AR platform.

 

[armarsh]

Sometimes the reason a wildcat is formed determines it's usefulness. Like 8mm-06 so that all the surplus 8mm WWII rifles could be used for sporters before 8mm brass was available. And like 22-243 so that you can rechamber shot-out 22-250's on the cheap AND use cheap 308 mil brass.

Sometimes the wildcat is more popular than the parent - like 6.5-284.