So i got approved and everything is in motion to receiving my 07 FFL, a field officer is coming by to go over procedures and everything has been passed. I already run an HVAC company so all fed and state tax stuff is handled. I was wondering about some of the better places to look for firearms for customers. I.E. Discounts to FFL Dealers. Not going to stock a lot of guns but mostly do transfers for guns people call and want ordered also odd and end stuff like custom ammo and guns.
Will be Receiving My 07 FFL in the next week or 2 have questions.
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Hunter86004
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When your FFL arrives, do a search for firearms wholesalers and send them copies of your license. You'll be on their mailing lists and will get catalogs like crazy.
What you may find is that many wholesalers have prices at, or above, what on line dealers advertise. Pretty tough to compete with places like Buds Gun Shop, especially if you have to collect sales tax, which adds to the sale price. A lot of small gun shops have died since the rise of internet sellers.
I was in the position you're about to be and, when the internet exploded, I couldn't compete, so now I just do transfers.
What you may find is that many wholesalers have prices at, or above, what on line dealers advertise. Pretty tough to compete with places like Buds Gun Shop, especially if you have to collect sales tax, which adds to the sale price. A lot of small gun shops have died since the rise of internet sellers.
I was in the position you're about to be and, when the internet exploded, I couldn't compete, so now I just do transfers.
Hunter86004
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Not that I'm aware of. I've been on their 'preferred dealer list' for years, but have never bought directly from them. Brownells does offer a dealer discount, but since I no longer stock anything, I don't have a need for it. I just tell any potential customer to check prices at the sellers who usually have good prices and do the transfer when their purchase arrives.
BSA1
member
I hope you are not in Wichita, Kansas.
Selling guns is a tough market. With the Internet it is easy to find out what a particular gun is selling for and the cost of shipping. I have a dealer that is close to me that does $10.00 transfers. I always give them a chance to see if they can match or get close to the online price but so far have not been able too. They prefer I order and pay for the gun myself so all they have to do is have me fill-out the 4473 and hand them the $10.00 bill as I have my ccl. It takes them all of 10 minutes since it is done on a computer.
As a businessman you realize that buying in volume will get you lower prices. The problem / risk is having a lot of money tied up in things that turn out to slow movers guns especially.
If the media is right about the Democrats winning the House in November there is going to be another full-scale Danic especially when they start impeachment of the President. Volume buying of ammunition and high capacity magazines with give you a huge return on your money. You would also get a good return on stripped AR lowers.
A good website is a must.
p.s. You know the Supreme Court ruled yesterday that States can collect sales tax on Internet orders.
Selling guns is a tough market. With the Internet it is easy to find out what a particular gun is selling for and the cost of shipping. I have a dealer that is close to me that does $10.00 transfers. I always give them a chance to see if they can match or get close to the online price but so far have not been able too. They prefer I order and pay for the gun myself so all they have to do is have me fill-out the 4473 and hand them the $10.00 bill as I have my ccl. It takes them all of 10 minutes since it is done on a computer.
As a businessman you realize that buying in volume will get you lower prices. The problem / risk is having a lot of money tied up in things that turn out to slow movers guns especially.
If the media is right about the Democrats winning the House in November there is going to be another full-scale Danic especially when they start impeachment of the President. Volume buying of ammunition and high capacity magazines with give you a huge return on your money. You would also get a good return on stripped AR lowers.
A good website is a must.
p.s. You know the Supreme Court ruled yesterday that States can collect sales tax on Internet orders.
lol im not in Wichita. about 2.5 hours away. im not looking to go full time with this right away for sure and my hvac covers my main income. Im in a smaller town >4500 people and the one Dealer we had went out and a new one opened up with ridiculous prices( $249 for a heritage base model .22lr rough rider. pretty sure 100% markup lol). so i was gonna fill that spot. I would like to build guns and sell re-man ammo as well. no gunsmiths around this areas (100 miles) i can do most work on guns especially repair and maintenance. I could build ar's and do re-barrels on limited firearms relatively easily. I have done a lot on my mill and lathe but im not sure im confidant enough to try that stuff on others high end guns. I guess we will see how this goes. i know markup from wholesale to customer hoovers around 15% which is fine. like i said mostly be a side deal atleast for awhile. good news is i have a few customers already like the shrine club, ducks unlimitied local chapter and all the many people i shoot local matches with.
i knew about the new internet taxes. one good thing about this small town is the buy local thing really goes over here. most people understand we will be a bit higher and are ok with it because most of us local business owners donate to local events, schools and the like. so im not worried to much if buds were to beat me by 30 bucks on a 300 dollar gun.
Hunter86004
Member
Be real careful here. No federal license is required to sell ammo, BUT, reloading ammo for sale makes you a manufacturer, except under certain conditions, and you will need a license for that. You also would be wise to get liability insurance before selling your reloads. One mistake on your part could cost you everything you own.
JeeperCreeper
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CDNN may offer discounts if you do enough business with them. But it's their business and their call, so contact them and ask.
Hunter86004
Member
Darn, I just noticed you're getting an 07 FFL, so you can manufacture ammo. My comment about insurance still stands.
i agree. I carry liability for my HVAC and Electric work. i do commercial work and carry 2 mil policy's so that would be about what i would figure to carry if i decided to manufacture ammo.
FROGO207
Member
I have a local FFL that will order what I want and do a free transfer for $25 above total cost-----or I order it, pay for it and the taxes, then he charges $25 to transfer. I usually let him do the work. Several times he has found me better deals than I could manage to find on my own. I would suggest if you have a convenient range, or one on site to offer to load custom ammo tuned for your customers firearms. Set a price per hour to do the workup to find the accurate load or loads initially. Then set a price to assemble the subsequent loads with your materials for the owner if they want. Being a FFL, having a client send you a firearm to do this for them is no big deal. Just make sure you return them as required by law.
This is close to my idea on custom ammo. A few people that shoot long range buy expensive ammo that I could easily out do accuracy wise if I had the rifle for a couple hours. They pay a premium for that stuff and shoot anywhere from 2k to 7k a year.
BSA1
member
Custom ammo made for your gun sounds interesting but I see very small interest in it. Shipping a expensive custom gun is a lot of risk both with the shipper damaging or stealing it and a lot of trust in a unknown person without a track record of winning matches with his ammo.
The demand for Suppressors is growing. There is a business in McPherson that sells suppressors and have a range to shoot them. They help with the application and handle everything including setting up a trust if you buy the suppressor from them. There may be a lot of demand for suppressors if you set up a similar business and range. Another big plus is you can make and sell your own subsonic ammunition.
SBR's are another area where there is a lot of interest based on Internet forums and gun magazine articles. Since shortening the barrel can be done with a hacksaw
handle the application and paperwork for the client if they buy the parts and have you do the gunsmithing.
The thing to keep in mind is owners of Suppressors and SBR's don't generally don't do a lot of bragging about them in public. I have found some owners unwilling to admit to owning them until they got to know me better. Mistrust in the Governmint runs deep in Kansas. This is case of where selling out of the back door of your HVAC business may be a advantage.
I think the biggest thing that holds people back from buying Suppressors and SBR's is doing the paperwork and following the procedure correctly. (At least it is for me).
The demand for Suppressors is growing. There is a business in McPherson that sells suppressors and have a range to shoot them. They help with the application and handle everything including setting up a trust if you buy the suppressor from them. There may be a lot of demand for suppressors if you set up a similar business and range. Another big plus is you can make and sell your own subsonic ammunition.
SBR's are another area where there is a lot of interest based on Internet forums and gun magazine articles. Since shortening the barrel can be done with a hacksaw
handle the application and paperwork for the client if they buy the parts and have you do the gunsmithing.The thing to keep in mind is owners of Suppressors and SBR's don't generally don't do a lot of bragging about them in public. I have found some owners unwilling to admit to owning them until they got to know me better. Mistrust in the Governmint runs deep in Kansas. This is case of where selling out of the back door of your HVAC business may be a advantage.
I think the biggest thing that holds people back from buying Suppressors and SBR's is doing the paperwork and following the procedure correctly. (At least it is for me).
buck460XVR
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Since it sounds as if your HVAC business is your main source of income and your FFL business is just a sideline, I would be hesitant to jump into trying to carry much inventory until I determined what is was my local customer base is in want of. Make your transfer fees low and this should get you a good influx of the local shooters and you can feel them out. I doubt if you can match prices on new guns. Maybe take used guns on commission or try to buy low and sell high. Tell folks outright they can order a gun from Bud's cheaper than what you can buy it for, but your transfer fee is the cheapest in the area. If you are going to sell reman ammo, I'd start with the most common handgun calibers and price them competitively. Lot's more folks out there looking for cheap range ammo for their .45ACP and .38Specials, than Mr. Deep Pockets looking for custom ammo for his custom gun. Odds are that guy is going to some Big Name Boutique ammo maker anyway. I wish you luck. Sounds like a great way to enjoy your gun interests and make a little cash doing it. Kinda the dream of all of us gun freaks.
Kp321
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07 FFL is gun manufacturer, 06 is ammunition manufacturer. Need both to sell custom rifles and ammunition to go with them. I carried an 06 license for years but gave it up due to the liability concerns and the excise tax bookkeeping.
Wisco
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Remember that even a low transfer fee and friendly service with a home-based FFL often won’t trump a local store’s hours and overall convenience.
I’ve forgone kitchen-table FFLs who did free transfers because it was so painfully awkward. You’re in someone’s home or home “office” and your NICS check isn’t instant - or at least mine aren’t. Neither is my WI handgun background check. You sit around for 5 minutes. 15 . 30. 1 hour. Then you leave. Then you have to go back. The location might not lend itself to easy return trips or killing time like a gun shop in a city.
The last gun I bought from a home-based FFL took forever, but it was a more rare gun I wanted he was selling. His hours sucked. His location wasn’t convenient (comparatively). His office was tiny and I made the decision to wait on the check rather than drive too much extra to town and back or home and back. 45 minutes of godawfully painful chitchat interrupted by mind-numbing boredom.
At a local gun store where I live, if my check is delayed, there’s lots to do. Look at everything at the LGS. Go get a drink. Eat. Other shopping. Anything but stand there and wait.
I won’t use a home-based FFL unless it is 5 minutes from home or they have something I can’t get anywhere else.
If you have a a great location and nice setup akin to a decent LGS, you’ll be okay, but you’ll probably have to undercut the LGS’s transfer fee. But dont be surprised if people don’t want to sit at your kitchen table and chitchat and wait on a delay...
That’s just my opinion... I’m not exactly easy going with my expectations of business matters as a customer, but I’ll also gladly pay more for convenience and stellar service and I won’t worry about it.
I’ve forgone kitchen-table FFLs who did free transfers because it was so painfully awkward. You’re in someone’s home or home “office” and your NICS check isn’t instant - or at least mine aren’t. Neither is my WI handgun background check. You sit around for 5 minutes. 15 . 30. 1 hour. Then you leave. Then you have to go back. The location might not lend itself to easy return trips or killing time like a gun shop in a city.
The last gun I bought from a home-based FFL took forever, but it was a more rare gun I wanted he was selling. His hours sucked. His location wasn’t convenient (comparatively). His office was tiny and I made the decision to wait on the check rather than drive too much extra to town and back or home and back. 45 minutes of godawfully painful chitchat interrupted by mind-numbing boredom.
At a local gun store where I live, if my check is delayed, there’s lots to do. Look at everything at the LGS. Go get a drink. Eat. Other shopping. Anything but stand there and wait.
I won’t use a home-based FFL unless it is 5 minutes from home or they have something I can’t get anywhere else.
If you have a a great location and nice setup akin to a decent LGS, you’ll be okay, but you’ll probably have to undercut the LGS’s transfer fee. But dont be surprised if people don’t want to sit at your kitchen table and chitchat and wait on a delay...
That’s just my opinion... I’m not exactly easy going with my expectations of business matters as a customer, but I’ll also gladly pay more for convenience and stellar service and I won’t worry about it.
buck460XVR
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I was thinking that the OP had a storefront business already and his FFL/gunshop hours would be concurrent with his HVAC office hours. Otherwise the idea of having any retail inventory at all would be kinda foolish.
Wisco
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That's would be infinitely better than the dreadful scenario in my head.
In that case, one more thing to consider in this age of polarization is that maybe half your HVAC customers might hate guns... but all your gun customers probably love HVAC, unless they're Amish or just plain weird.
I know the feeling here. I have a heated and cooled shop beside my house with plenty of stuff to look at that I will most likely have for sale.
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Wisco
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That’s good to hear - you’re ahead of many who get FFLs and don’t think through the customer service interaction thoroughly.
Lol. I can definitely tell who lives in a small town or a big city by the comments.
I bet I know 90% of the adult males in my town. I'd guess around 900 or so.
I shoot with most of them in one type of match or another. Or do HVAC work for them or for the place they work. Also on a side note I do not do work for anti gun people. Like I said I know about everyone and everyone knows me. The few( less than 10% of the population) that are anti gun wouldn't call me for HVAC work anyway. I'm pretty outspoken of gun rights politics and local government. Even ran for city council last year. I feel for you guys living in big towns or cities. Doesn't sound fun.
I bet I know 90% of the adult males in my town. I'd guess around 900 or so.
I shoot with most of them in one type of match or another. Or do HVAC work for them or for the place they work. Also on a side note I do not do work for anti gun people. Like I said I know about everyone and everyone knows me. The few( less than 10% of the population) that are anti gun wouldn't call me for HVAC work anyway. I'm pretty outspoken of gun rights politics and local government. Even ran for city council last year. I feel for you guys living in big towns or cities. Doesn't sound fun.
Yes. Also most people have a concealed carry license and I dont have to call in a background check for them in that case.
There also is no local lgs but one. He is marking everything up 100%. And his hours are limited to a few hours a day. I can be in my shop 24-7 with a phone call. It will be a side deal but I think I will carry some inventory especially during and right before hunting seasons. When this one and only new lgs closes I will consider a full time deal in another building and put my dad to work lol give him something to do in his old age during hunting season.
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