Will the .357 LCR Render the .38 Version Obsolete?

[Wishoot]

I have the .38 LCR and I like it quite a bit. For a snub nose .38, it points, shoots and handles recoil well.

I'm wondering if there's still a place in this world for the .38 version now that the .357 has hit the shelves.

Will Ruger be mothballing the .38 version soon?

 

[oasis618]

The .357 is noticabley heavier than the .38 and since I have no interest in firing .357's in such a small frame for SD anyway, my vote stays with the .38.

 

[PT1911]

There will always be those who want a 38 without the extra bulk of the 357... In such a light gun, I would only ever shoot 38's and 38+p anyhow. I doubt i would ever opt for the 357 version...Personally, for my uses a 357 snubbie such as the LCR would be rough to shoot and not add much of an advantage over the 38+p.... just my opinion, but then again, I wouldnt mind the versatility and added weight of the 357 to better manage the recoil of the 38+p.

 

[sleepyone]

The .38 LCR will stay. Maybe a good comparison is the Smith and Wesson 340 scandium alloy frame with a titanium cylinder. I don't see many people dumping their 642 or 442 .38 +P for the 340. Most people don't want to deal with the recoil from a 13 oz .357 magnum. Even the 642 alone is not very fun to shoot more than 10 rounds through. On the other hand, my wife's LCR .38 +P is actually pleasant to shoot. It is because of the grip design and polymer fram absorbing a fair amount of the recoil. Maybe Ruger can carry those same characteristics over to the .357 version. If so, I'm not averse to adding it to my 642, 1911 and 686 arsenal of car guns and home defense rotation.

 

[Prosser]

The only reason I keep my 360PD is I have too much money in it.
At 7 yards, it's body shots only. Not accurate enough for head shots.
You can't really shoot full house .357 heavy loads with it anyway, at least I can't. Plus, the .357 loads I can shoot are really close to .38 Plus P loads, out of the 1 7/8" barrel.

If ruger was smart, they would offer a 3" version. Then you start getting the benefits, and the recoil from .357 ballistics, where in the shorter barrel it's kind of questionable.

The recoil from .357 in a 12-15 oz gun is near legal liability standards. In other words, repeated use of a gun and loads that recoil at over 45 fps is quite likely to damage to the shooter, and possibly lock the gun up, either due to internal failings(ala my 360PD going auto lock) or bullet pull.

On the otherhand, I do like the flame thrower/flash bang effect you get with medium .357 loads out of a snubby.

"Officer: It's the guy with his hair on fire, blind and deaf. He ran away. I missed him;-)"

 

[Flfiremedic]

I have the 38 version...with +ps its kind of exciting to shoot. The 357 would be worse.

 

[Wishoot]

on the otherhand, i do like the flame thrower/flash bang effect you get with medium .357 loads out of a snubby.

"officer: It's the guy with his hair on fire, blind and deaf. He ran away. I missed him;-)"

roflmao!!!!

 

[sleepyone]

+1!

 

[wow6599]

I wouldn't buy the .38 now. The difference in weight isn't great enough for me to give up the versatility of the .357. You never know if you may need or want that option.

 

[lebowski]

Considering the .38 j-frames (such as the 642) remain some of the most common CCW choices to this day, I highly doubt it.

I like the ballistics of the .357 mag out of a larger, longer barrel gun. In a snub I find it's not worth the the tradeoff for recoil, blast, and noise, especially considering that .357 mag needs a somewhat long barrel to realize it's ballistic potential.

 

[W.E.G.]

If the recoil of .357 in a snub don't get ya, the muzzle flash will.

 

[Guillermo]

of course it comes down to sales. And I suspect that the 38 will remain a profitable product for them.

 

[sleepyone]

I will wait until I see some very lightly used LCR .357s show up for sale on the high road. I'm sure some pinhead will buy one for his wife and post it for sale at a steep discount when she pistol whips him with it after her first shot!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

There will always be those who want a 38 without the extra bulk of the 357...

Agreed. Give customers the choice. Personally, I would reserve full magnums for the SP101 anyway.

 

[oldbear]

The main reason for most of us, myself included, to own a .357 snub is the versatility. With the .357 you can safely shoot 38 special, 38 special +P, +P+, & .357 Magnum ammo.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

they oughta make a 9mm version

 

[Prosser]

"The main reason for most of us, myself included, to own a .357 snub is the versatility. With the .357 you can safely shoot 38 special, 38 special +P, +P+, & .357 Magnum ammo. "

I have been known to shoot, if not well, , some pretty heavy recoiling handguns. NONE of them recoil as hard, or as fast as my 360PD, or so it feels.

Speed kills, and, the scandiums are just too light for absorbing any kind of recoil.

Here are some loads, uffalobore IIRC, that I tried ONE of each in my scandium, and gave the boxes to a friend:
360PD recoil figures:
180 gr. L.F.N. -G.C. (1,400fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.)
Recoil Energy of 41 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 60 fps.

158 gr. J.H.C. (1,475fps/M.E. 763 ft. lbs.)
Recoil Energy of 37 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 57 fps.

125 gr. J.H.C. (1,700fps/M.E. 802 ft. lbs.)

Recoil Energy of 35 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 55 fps

Now, get the gun weight around 32 oz, and compare my friends .500 JRH
recoil figures:
HELLBOY
RUGER MONTADO .500 JRH

275 GRAINS 1200 FPS BARNES
Recoil Energy of 19 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 23 fps.

275 grains 1300 fps Barnes
Recoil Energy of 22 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 25 fps.

325 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .475" 1.740" 8.0 844 21,500 PSI
Recoil Energy of 11 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 18 fps.

325 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .475" 1.740" 27.0 1288 28,000 PSI
Recoil Energy of 32 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 30 fps.

370 GR. CPB LFP Hodgdon Titegroup .475" 1.770" 8.0 925 27,100 PSI
Recoil Energy of 17 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 22 fps.

350 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup 1.740" 12.0 1138 34,700 PSI
Recoil Energy of 25 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 26 fps.

370 GR. CPB LFP Hodgdon H4227 .475" 1.770" 25.5 1259 31,800 PSI
Recoil Energy of 37 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 32 fps.


On the last load, you can see that the energy is pretty high, but recoil velocity stays liveable.

Now, let's look at the absurd: 525 grain LFN's out of a Ruger Linebaugh Maximum, at 1550 fps.
Recoil Energy of 75 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 37 fps.
It STILL doesn't get anywhere near the velocity you have to absorb with that little .357 coming back at you. However, the 75 ft lbs, though I've only shot that bullet at 1350 fps, for about 55 ft lbs, makes your hand feel like some one hit your palm hard with a baseball bat.

That was a LONG way to go, but my point is you are only going to be using the very low-medium level .357 loads in these guns, and, some of these are equaled, at least in recoil, by Plus P 38 loads.

Still, since scandium isn't exactly known for being long lasting, their is some comfort in knowing you are using a stronger gun on the low end of it's rating, rather then a weaker gun at the top of it's rating.

PS I should mention we use the same loading data for the .500 JRH as the .475 Linebaugh.

 

[CajunBass]

Considering they still make 38 revolvers long after the 357 arrived on the scene, I doubt it.

 

[Joe Demko]

.357 snubs give the illusion of versatility. You can shoot .357's out of them, but it seems that everybody I know who has one doesn't. Or rather, the ones who do go with .357's that are downloaded to .38 special levels.
I suppose, if we put our imaginations to it, that we can come up with a situation where life hangs in the balance and the only gun available is a .357 snub and the only ammo is full-power magnum loads. But you know what? I'm hard pressed to do that and come up with anything that isn't squarely in Walter Mitty land. I love the .357 magnum. I have three of them, none with less than a 4 inch barrel: S&W 686, S&W 66, and a Ruger Blackhawk. It's a great round in those pistols. From a snubby pocket gun, the .38 is the pick.

 

[Prosser]

Don't know about that. I'll take the 1131 fps, with a JHP 147 grain bullet, even if it's a mild .357 magnum load.
The ballistics of most .38 ammo is so far down the food chain that I start thinking about shooting flat point ammo, to make sure I get enough penetration.

A model 60 is a HUGE step in the right direction, and, a 3" barrel even better. Mainly the additional weight cuts recoil speed in half, making the guns somewhere around shootable.

In fact, the only .38 I have in my bag is a box of 125 grain FMJ's, CCI Blazer Brass, @ about 900 fps, maybe, out of my snub. I can shoot this stuff more accurately, but it's
not a HP, at 1131 fps, and combined with the hand grenade effect at point blank range,
I'll stay with the .357.

 

[bluetopper]

I can see the 357 LCR turning a lot of women off to shooting before they even begin.

The 38 LCR is plenty of power and a pleasure to shoot. No it's not going anywhere.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I will wait until I see some very lightly used LCR .357s show up for sale on the high road.

With 45 cartridges remaining in the box?

 

[oldbear]

357 snubs give the illusion of versatility.

Sir, the .357 snub does not only give the illusion of versatility, it is versatile. With the .357, snub or longer tube, you have the ability to safely use the widest selection of factory ammo of any revolver cartage. Your are correct in your assertion that the .357 is best used in barrels 4” or longer, but it will work in a 2” barrel as well.

 

[rich642z]

I have the LCR in .357 and also in .38 shoot both revolvers,are a dream. If you look at gunblast.com,Jeff will be firing a LCR in .357 also with .38 specials. Look up date of vid of May 13th. rich642z

 

[Wishoot]

Interesting perspectives. I don't think I'll be trading in my .38 LCR for the .357 anytime soon.