Will they eventually take your CCW serial numbers too...

[Autolycus]

Imagine that they might start taking ballistic fingerprints and recording serial numbers of your carry guns...

Green Bay
Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops
By Sarah Thomsen

If you're ticketed by Green Bay police, you'll get more than a fine. You'll get fingerprinted, too. It's a new way police are cracking down on crime.

If you're caught speeding or playing your music too loud, or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask for your drivers license and your finger. You'll be fingerprinted right there on the spot. The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.

Police say it's meant to protect you -- in case the person they're citing isn't who they claim to be. But not everyone is sold on that explanation.

"What we've seen happen for the last couple of years [is] increasing use of false or fraudulent identification documents," Captain Greg Urban said.

Police say they want to prevent the identity theft problem that Milwaukee has, where 13 percent of all violators give a false name.

But in Green Bay, where police say they only average about five cases in a year, drivers we talked with think the new policy is extreme.

"That's going too far," Ken Scherer from Oconto said. "You look at the ID, that's what they're there for. Either it's you or it's not. I don't think that's a valid excuse."

"I would feel uncomfortable but I would do it," Carol Pilgrim of Green Bay said.

Citizens do have the right to say no. "They could say no and not have to worry about getting arrested," defense attorney Jackson Main said. "On the other hand, I'm like everybody else. When a police officer tells me to do something, I'm going to do it whether I have the right to say no or not."

That's exactly why many drivers are uneasy about the fine print in this fingerprinting policy.

Police stress that the prints are just to make sure you are who you claim to be and do not go into any kind of database; they simply stay on the ticket for future reference if the identity is challenged.

Link to Article

 

[AirForceShooter]

"it's for your own protection"
Gotta love that one.
Of course all the CCW people have already been fingerprinted.
Next is your DNA.

The helicopters aren't black. They're a dark gray.

AFS

 

[benEzra]

So if anyone is free to refuse being printed, how is this going to stop the use of fake ID's?

 

[dogrunner]

In Florida there'd first have to be a statuatory revision. It is a FELONY for any jurisdiction to register or maintain a list of firearms or firearms owners...(FSS 790.335). That law provides for extremely heavy monitary penalties for violation............one of the most interesting fact findings by the Legislature of Florida was that such lists provide a : "shopping list for thieves".....Nice thought!

 

[AirplaneDoc]

If Greenbay is that unsafe, I guess I'm not going to a Packers game.

 

[Geno]

dogrunner said:

In Florida there'd first have to be a statuatory revision. It is a FELONY for any jurisdiction to register or maintain a list of firearms or firearms owners...(FSS 790.335). That law provides for extremely heavy monitary penalties for violation............one of the most interesting fact findings by the Legislature of Florida was that such lists provide a : "shopping list for thieves".....Nice thought!

Florida may experience over-crowding by pro-firearms folks. The other problem that comes out of these BS "safety inspections" i.e. registration is that some of the mindless antis who work at the sheriff's department do their flat-out best to harass and intimidate those of us who own more than zero firearms, barking such retorts as "You've bought X number of pistols!" Michigan is alleged to have plans to take out the safety inspections and maintain the registration list.

Regarding finger prints, sorry, I politely would refuse. We have to say no somewhere. Everyone has the right to draw the proverbial line in the sand.

 

[scout26]

Why not just have everyone get their SSN tattoo'd on their forearm ???

 

[Noxx]

Why not just have everyone get their SSN tattoo'd on their forearm ???

in convenient bar code format.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Citizens do have the right to say no. "They could say no and not have to worry about getting arrested," defense attorney Jackson Main said. "On the other hand, I'm like everybody else. When a police officer tells me to do something, I'm going to do it whether I have the right to say no or not."

Sorry buddy, but you aren't like me.

 

[mattmacklind]

You know, if an officer wanted to, they could just arrest you for the speeding or whatever else and take you to the station, book you, print you, and hold you for 24 hours.

 

[Geno]

matt said:

You know, if an officer wanted to, they could just arrest you for the speeding or whatever else and take you to the station, book you, print you, and hold you for 24 hours.

True, then they could be sued for a multitude of reasons.

Or, they could be fired, or have their collective contract revoked...like we did here. The county police lost their contract with our city because they were unprofessional.

See, we have Zero Tolerance for idiots who would play games. Any LEO who would arrest someone for the heck of it...they'd pay a price here.

Doc2005

 

[Deavis]

Citizens do have the right to say no.

You have the right to say no, so what is the big deal. Just like everything else regarding LEOs, if they ask, you can say no. Just say no and move on if it bothers you. It helps them avoid mix-ups, which is a reasonable objective. You can say no, which is a reasonable protection. No need to break out the tinfoil and start flexing. Life goes on, nothing to see here folks.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

The helicopters aren't black. They're a dark gray

They are dark when they are right over you.

 

[mp510]

This really does not seem like an intrusion. There are instances when those citations could have easily became custodial arrests in the past (at officer discretion if not prohibited or as the result of a suspect not signing the citation) - which would have entailed in full booking at lock-up- mugshots, prints...the works. I have heard of some jurisdictions where individuals who recieve minor criminal citations later required to be subjected to finger printing after court appearances. While it is not a custodial arrest, being cited is an arrest. Locally, cited individuals are reported as arrests in the police blotter- same as every other arrestee. The police have a responsibility to identify an arrestee as accurately as possible. This could also help prove failure to appear charges later on, if an aresstee fails to show up at court (that was your thumb print, no?). Additionally, this could serve to protect you- it would suck if someone identified them as yourself (notice that the officer said false names given by suspects are common), failed to appear, and got you hooked up for it. Being able to defintively show that you weren't the arrestee would be avery good thing under those circumstances.

 

[gbran]

My CA CCW permit already has my fingerprint and the s/n#'s of the three weapons they allow me on the permit.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

In Oklahoma, our CWL doesn't list guns or serial numbers; it does list types of guns that may be carried. If you qualify with a semi-auto your license shows DRS (derringer/revolver/semiauto). If you qualify with a revolver it shows DR. If you are some sort of masochist, it would just show D. I qualified with a GI .45 even though I carry revolvers as my primary CCWs.

As for fingerprints, the latest Oklahoma Driver License has my right index fingerprint in the digitized information on the back. Of course, all my prints are already in government databases from my security clearances in the Army.

ECS

 

[Hoppy590]

currently in MA we have defacto registration via the FA-10 forms. "record of sale" how searchable that database is, i donno. but they DO have my fingerprints from my FID card, and they do know, at some point i bought all my guns by serial number and make/model

 

[BridgeWalker]

Iirc, there are a couple of states where certain traffic infractions are criminal offenses, and the officer does have the option of making an arrest. Those states are the exception, not the rule. Perhaps Matt is thinking of one of those states?

 

[Hypnogator]

I'm betting that you're not being fully fingerprinted for the citation. That'd be a lot of work for the officer and taking a good set of prints under field conditions is not always easy.

More than likely, you're placing a thumbprint or index fingerprint in a box on the citation. You won't be able to be ID'd from that fingerprint, but if you show up in court and claim that you never received the ticket and that isn't your signature on it, a quick comparison of the fingerprint on the citation with your thumb or index finger will determine whether you're lying or not.

Of course, you could always chop off your finger to beat the citation.

Another one for the MAAN file (Much Ado About Nothing).

 

[Hypnogator]

Another one for the MAAN file.

 

[iiibdsiil]

If they were smart they'd hit a different finger every time you get pulled over.