Winchester 1892 Carbine vs 1892 Short

[revolversrbetter]

The Winchester web site shows two different rifles that look pretty identical to me - what am I missing?

Both are walnut with a straight stock, both are blued 20" round barrels. In .357, the 1892 Carbine has a different model number, slightly different weight, and slightly different MSRP than the 1892 Short - but by looking at them, I really don't see a difference.

Also, neither of them state .38 Special is acceptable, only .357. Can they use both rounds?

 

[CraigC]

With leverguns, there are certain features that differentiate rifles and carbines. Contrary to popular perception, it's not just about barrel length. It's actually not about barrel length at all. Rifles have octagon, round or half round/half octagon barrels, forend caps, longer forends, a magazine hanger that is dovetailed into the barrel, half/full/button magazines and crescent or shotgun buttplates. Carbines have round barrels only, barrel bands at the forend tip and at the muzzle, a saddle ring, full-length magazines and what can only be described as the "carbine buttplate". Any rifle shorter than 24" is dubbed "short rifle" and "carbine" is not specific to any barrel length. So it is entirely possible to have a short rifle with a shorter barrel than a carbine. You can see perfect examples of this on the Winchester site because their "Trapper" models are actually short rifles with 16" barrels but the carbines can be as long as 20".

Of course, back in the old days you could order one with any way you wanted so surely there are guns out there with a mix of rifle and carbine features.

The ubiquitous model 94 carbine that has been so prolific over the last 100yrs typically has both rifle and carbine features. They're basically carbines with a shotgun buttplate.

 

[Art Eatman]

Sorry, CraigC, but if you go back in history, you find that the difference between "rifle" and "carbine" is indeed a function of barrel length. This began in the 19th century, generally separating cavalry firearms from those used by infantry. The world is full of photographs and discussions of the differences.

Fast forwarding into the mid-20th, "rifles" generally had barrels of around 24" and "carbines" were down in the 18" to 20" range.

Then came the mid-range weaponry such as the ARs and AKs. Barrel lengths around 16" became more common, and the distinction has now become rather blurred. To a great extent, as near as I can tell, the distinction applies mostly to sporting firearms, and more generally to the lever guns.

 

[rcmodel]

When it comes to Winchester lever-actions, I got to go with CraigC.

The differance isn't about barrel length.

The most common identifier is, a rifle has a steel fore-end cap, and a carbine has a barrel band.

rc

 

[CraigC]

Sorry, CraigC, but if you go back in history...

Sorry Art, but the history I gave is specific to leverguns, Winchesters in particular and I made that very clear. No other rifle type is relevant in this instance.

The differences I pointed out in the initial post make it clear that this is a short rifle:


And this a carbine:


Despite the fact that the short rifle has a shorter barrel than the carbine. It's all right there in Winchester's current literature.

FYI, I also forgot to point out that the pistol grip is also a "rifle" characteristic.


Also apparent here in Cimarron's model listing for the 1873: