Winchester 1897 slugger

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Kano383

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A few months ago, I got lucky and became the new owner of a 115 years old Winchester 1897. I’ve never been a great fan of shotguns: I’ve owned a few as working tools, but never warmed to any of them. Till I met this ugly duckling…

Under the century old grime, the stock had an ebony diamond inletted on each side, and the bolt was engraved TRAP GUN. The 24” Cylinder barrel was at odd with any of the standard 1897 configurations, but when checked there was a Winchester factory ledger entry for that barrel, so this was a legitimate 24” Black Diamond 1897. Unfortunately for the collectors, the stock had been cut to a 12.5” LOP, probably to fit a now missing rubber pad, the finish was gone from the receiver and many parts, and the receiver was showing swirls of old rust pitting.

But… That slim straight grip stock, the balance coming from the heavy receiver and carrier putting the weight “between your hands”, the all-steel and wood construction, the external hammer, the steampunk takedown system… I fell in love with that thing.

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As said, this is not a collector piece – and I’m not a collector. I shoot guns. I use guns. I work with guns. I’m keeping this, but it’s going to be put to use.

I cleaned the stock: got rid of the old shellac, soaked the wood in thinner for a full day to remove as much of the old gun oil imbibing it as possible. I then raised the dents, and sanded the stock till it was good enough: my aim is not to make it look new, just to make it look clean. I finished it with Alkanet root and linseed oil, and a final coat of carnauba wax when everything was dry. Carnauba wax is my favorite finish: waterproof, soft sheen, and with a natural grippiness, a non-slip feel even with wet hands. Unlike beeswax, it is not affected by the heat of the sun, its melting point of 80C/180F being far above the temperatures one may encounter in normal use.

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What remained of the original checkering disappeared almost completely, which doesn’t bother me. However, I took note of the pattern, and if I get bored one of these days I might make myself a cutter of the proper size (it’s an odd 22-23 lpi, shallow diamond/flat top pattern) and recut it, just because.

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Though the gun balanced very well, it didn’t mount worth a darn. It fitted me so badly that I was puzzled, even if I considered that the stock was too short. Looking closely under all angles, I had a Duh!!! moment: there was a pronounced cast-on. That was a lefty stock, no wonder it didn’t fit!

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I went to work with fine chisels and sanding blocks, and corrected the wrist, as well as the receiver shank. It didn’t take too long to go from a cast-on to a cast-off, turning from a lefty stock to a righty stock.

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I then plugged the many old buttpad screw holes with hardwood dowels, and trued the face, with a slight amendment to the pitch angle. I had a Limbsaver recoil pad in a drawer, I trimmed it roughly and installed it. This got me the proper LOP, but looks really ugly on the 1897: I’ll get goatskin and cover the pad after final shaping.

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Next, I looked into sights. Yep, sights, more specifically a ghost ring rear and fiber optic front. I’m not into regular bird shooting, and with the Cylinder barrel this will be a great slug gun: home defense, pigs, warthogs, the odd antelope, and good leopard medicine. All my rifles have had ghost rings and fiber fronts for years, that’s the fastest setup this side of a red dot, and I’m totally used to it.

Rummaging through my boxes of bits and pieces and odd parts, I found a Williams rear sight, and a couple of CZ front sight bases, one with a fiber optic post. After making a couple of test dovetail rings the old fashioned way, with files and lots of time and elbow grease, I settled on the shape and dimensions of the rear sight. I cut the Williams base to fit the 1897 receiver (with jigs, sand paper, and tons of time), and cut the dovetail aperture sight from an old 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer trigger, so that one is period correct.

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The Williams base looks classic enough, I dehorned it because there is nothing I hate as much as sharp corners and edges on a rifle. The front sight, well… John Browning and Winchester didn’t have fiber optics in those days, but if they had they’d have used them. One day I’ll cut a sight base and post to really look the part, meanwhile this will do the job.

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No, I’m not gonna drill and tap an 1897 receiver… I’m not a collector, but I’m not too much of a Bubba either. The sights are stuck on with epoxy: strong enough for use, but can be removed if one really wants to.

Now that everything was ready, all that was needed was to test my new companion…

A friend of mine, from an outfit that specializes in close protection and counter-terrorism, got me a few slugs. Precious as gold where I live: these are absolute top class, Fiocchi 2 ¾” with 1 1/8 oz Gualandi slugs, better than even the famed Brenneke. So today I headed for the range.

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And here are the results:

First shot, 10 meters
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Second shot, 20 meters
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Two shots at 45 meters
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I’m pleased.


That’s an understatement… :D
 
I'm generally not a fan of modding old guns overmuch, but that is several kinds of cool.
 
That's a fine looking black diamond 97.
I wonder if someone made a quail gun out of it back in the day?
She sure shoots slugs like a champ.

Could be… The Winchester records indicate that the gun was delivered in 1907 with the standard 30” trap barrel, but was returned to the factory in 1919 and fitted with this 24” Cylinder barrel.
 
Fewer things in this world cooler than a '97, and the OP has done an extraordinary job fixing it, without fixing it too much.
Gotta tell you, since you want it as a slug gun, and since keeping it original isn't too important (a fiber optic front sight ;) ), I think I would have whacked it to riot length.
One wandered my way at a gunshow, maybe 15 years ago. Really nice, if not perfect shape. Twenty inch barrel, marked 'full'?
A little research on the serial number indicated 1943 production, and showed some extant guns were whacked to riot length for stateside security duty; mills and such.
How much LOP is normal for these? The one gripe I had was more LOP than worked for me, but hated to cut the (nice ) original wood. Finally stumbled on to some aftermarket wood, and trimmed it to 13.25.
Changed the forend wood as well, and had one perfect stinker of a time getting everything back together.
Enjoy your gun. Still not sure what to think about that fiber optic front sight.... ;)
Moon
 
Fewer things in this world cooler than a '97, and the OP has done an extraordinary job fixing it, without fixing it too much.
Gotta tell you, since you want it as a slug gun, and since keeping it original isn't too important (a fiber optic front sight ;) ), I think I would have whacked it to riot length.
One wandered my way at a gunshow, maybe 15 years ago. Really nice, if not perfect shape. Twenty inch barrel, marked 'full'?
A little research on the serial number indicated 1943 production, and showed some extant guns were whacked to riot length for stateside security duty; mills and such.
How much LOP is normal for these? The one gripe I had was more LOP than worked for me, but hated to cut the (nice ) original wood. Finally stumbled on to some aftermarket wood, and trimmed it to 13.25.
Changed the forend wood as well, and had one perfect stinker of a time getting everything back together.
Enjoy your gun. Still not sure what to think about that fiber optic front sight.... ;)
Moon

That fiber optic… Can’t really hide it, can we? :D

I can’t see a standard post unless in direct midday sunlight: any shadows or dark backgrounds and it disappears in a blur. I’ve been using front fiber optics and rear ghost sights on my guns for years, and I wouldn’t want anything else on my backup gun. They’re very fast, unobtrusive, accurate, and visible in any light till some time after sundown. After dark, it’s flashlight time, and then a ring and post are still faster than standard iron sights.

As I said, one of these days I’ll probably make a front sight looking more “period correct”, but it will also have a fiber on top.

Standard LOP on these varied over the years, it was in the neighborhood of 13 1/4” - 13 1/2”.

A 20” barrel would be handier, but for now I’m fine with the 24” for noise abatement purposes… Shorten the barrel, and it makes a significant difference to the shooter’s ear, especially the left one, and mine are already sensitive due to big bores blasting away too close too many times (have a .458 WM or .470 NE going off a foot or two to your side, and you’ll hear whistles that are not in the room…). If it shows itself being too long when used in the bush, I can always shorten it a bit.


That's interesting.
You should find a black diamond model 12 to go with it. My dad has one. It is a matted rib trap gun.

I’d love to find an old Model 12 forgotten in an armory… There may be a few around here, if I see one passing I’ll grab it before it disappears.


Will you be reblueing it? I think you should.

I thought abouth that right at the beginning, but this would need either full restoration, rust blue and all, trying to be as close to original as possible, or going the Cerakote “I don’t care how it looked” way. Both ways it would lose the old geezer’s charm, and I quite like the way it looks its 100+ years… Can’t duplicate that patina! For the sights, I just tempered them to a color that would roughly match the parts on which they sit.
 
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It is perfect, functional, old school no frills just do what is supposed to do. Great work congrats.
 
what kind of epoxy did you use to adhere the sites?

Since I didn’t know how the sights would do, I just used standard quick-set epoxy: I didn’t want something that would put up too much of a fight when removing it…

The best slow-cure epoxy we can find around here only gets to 2000psi tensile strength. Although this would be plenty enough for sights, I’ll try and get something better from outside: there is always a use for real good glue…
 
Looks like a great project. You should be proud of your work!

Period inexpensive rifles and shotguns had old growth wood on them, it is always surprising to hold an old firearm and see the nice figuring in the wood.
 
That is a very nice job of resurrecting an old work horse. I'm happy to see that it has been put back to use and is not going to be a safe queen or a relic over a fireplace to remind us or days gone by.

My Dad always told me the only useful gun is one that goes bang. Ones for decoration or safe queens were never allowed in the house growing up. Once again nice work!!!
 
Since I didn’t know how the sights would do, I just used standard quick-set epoxy: I didn’t want something that would put up too much of a fight when removing it…

The best slow-cure epoxy we can find around here only gets to 2000psi tensile strength. Although this would be plenty enough for sights, I’ll try and get something better from outside: there is always a use for real good glue…

nice work would JB weld work for this application? That has is rated for 5,000 psi.
 
nice work would JB weld work for this application? That has is rated for 5,000 psi.

Yes, that would be perfect… There are very few epoxy resins rated higher than that, I’m only aware of T88 and some specialty items from Delo wich get around 7,000psi, but these would be overkill for most needs…

A very good solder is rated 5000-6000psi, and they’ve been gluing elephant guns together with tin solder for a century and a half: if that wasn’t strong enough, we would know about it by now… :D
 
How about a couple pictures of the whole gun with the sights integrated. Nice work on those sights!
 
Yes, that would be perfect… There are very few epoxy resins rated higher than that, I’m only aware of T88 and some specialty items from Delo wich get around 7,000psi, but these would be overkill for most needs…

A very good solder is rated 5000-6000psi, and they’ve been gluing elephant guns together with tin solder for a century and a half: if that wasn’t strong enough, we would know about it by now… :D

lol very true! I actually didn't realize JB weld was in the tin solder realm strength wise. Appreciate the factoid!
 
For all those heaping compliments, thanks, I appreciate…

I just love good guns: they’re tools that you can rely on, often trusting your life to them. And an old piece like this one has all its history and that of the people who owned it and lived with it, I really want to keep its character. My six years old son already asked me if he could have it when he’ll be grown up…
 
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How about a couple pictures of the whole gun with the sights integrated. Nice work on those sights!

I’ll finish the leather on the recoil pad then post the completed work, that Limbsaver is an eyesore… Very effective, but definitely not in style!
 
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Yes, that would be perfect… There are very few epoxy resins rated higher than that, I’m only aware of T88 and some specialty items from Delo wich get around 7,000psi, but these would be overkill for most needs…

A very good solder is rated 5000-6000psi, and they’ve been gluing elephant guns together with tin solder for a century and a half: if that wasn’t strong enough, we would know about it by now… :D

if you did want to remove them, punch and hammer?
 
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