Winchester Model 70 vs. Remington 700

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About 5 years ago I came upon a used but like-new Winchester model 70 chambered in .270 with an older Leupold Vari-XII (I don't remember the exact model) for the princely sum of $300. I purchased the rifle for resale, ran a few rounds through it, and promptly doubled my money plus some. I've been kicking myself ever since.

Back in those days, I didn't hunt anything which didn't have wings and had no desire to hunt larger game. Of course now I do hunt big game and I've been borrowing a friend's .30-06 but I still have 20 or so remaining .270 rounds languishing in the safe. I mainly hunt deer and antelope with an occasional jaunt into the big hills for elk.

I've been wandering around the local sporting goods stores and checking out a new .270 for myself and so far the afore mentioned models have really hooked me; probably the Remington Mountain model more so than the Winchester as they all have synthetic stocks. I'm not opposed in principle to synthetic though I'm a bit of traditionalist so it will be blued steel and wood for me. I'm sure there are lots of folks here who have experience with one or both and I'm looking for pros and cons of each. I don't really care to get into a discussion as to whether or not .270 is a reliable or sporting round to harvest elk with.

Your opinions are appreciated.
 
I have no experience with the Win 70, but i do have a Remington 700 in .270win. I love the feel of the Remington, and it shoots great. The only thing is that the trigger is a bit on the heavy side. That seems to be the case with many rifles now though, but there are many aftermarket triggers to correct this.
 
With the demise of domestic Winchester Model 70 production recently...

I have to wonder if any Model 70 one finds these days isn't an orphan with respect to parts and service. Not that the rifles aren't durable and capable of going a lifetime without repair, but I'd feel better about a Model 700 with some factory support still behind it. ;)
 
My cousin has an old 1970s) Remington 700 that he bought new. I bought my son a Winchester M70 for his 18th bith day. Its a late 70's push feed. Both are great rifles. If the price was right I'd take either and be happy. But my first choice would be the Winchester.
 
i have a couple dozen remington 700's, and about half as many winchester 70's.

my preference is most definitely w/ the 700's. why? because i like 'em better. why is that? because i do.

my brother has about 10 tang-safety rugers, and only a couple stray 'other kinds'. why? because he likes 'em better... the point is, find one that speaks to you and buy it, and go home happy knowing you have a solid rifle.

oh, and rumor is... winchester 70's are being revived, and we can expect to see new 70's rolling out in about 15 months.

last point... factory synthetic stocks suck. they are actually heavier than wood, and more flexible. the only thing they have going for 'em is they are absolutely unharmed by water.
 
They are both good, I own 1 of each, a .270 M700, the other a .264 M70 push feed. I bought the M70 to feed a hunger of the 1st rifle I shot a deer with, and the fact that the same rifle was like my dad's which was a sentimental deal for me.
I also have and love an older tang safety M77r.
They all have their perks and share similar accuracy. You might prefer one of the safeties over the other, and you may like to have open sights or not, you may like a particular stock design/cheek piece, or the trigger of one over the others.
Mostly I guess you'll need to go and hold a few different brands and maybe be able to shoot some until you lock in on a certain rifle.
I have many different rifles and if I had to have just one it would probably be the M700 for practical reasons due to it's .270 caliber and availability of it everywhere plus the fact that it just shoots great and I like the look of the M700BDL stock and I like to have the open sights as backup since I once broke a scope right in 2 on a rifle not so equiped thus ending the trip early. I guess I could say the same for my M70 other than it's almost obsolete caliber in my own example.
Good luck in your search!
Best-MC
 
I've got one rem 700 in 308 that was great shooter, 3/4" 5 shot avg when I did my part,

the factory 700 trigger can be adjusted for everything except trebble and bass, I adjusted mine to 28oz years ago when I got it, and it still pulls right at 28oz after thousands of rounds, enough in fact that the barrel is worn to the point it needs to be replaced,

I also have three win 70, in 300winmag, 7mm mag synthetic and 22-250, the triggers are fully adjustable also,

the 300wm will shoot 1 1/2" 5 shot groups with its favorite 200gr hunting load,

the 22-250 will avg 3/4" for 5 shots with handloads, and when I've been really on my game has went into 7/16",

I recently got the 7mag for a really great price, I've only shot it 15 times as thats how many rounds the guy had out of the first box of ammo that had been fired through it,

it didn't fare as well accuracy wise, 2 1/2" for 3 shots, but I think the synthetic stock might have contributed to that some, its got a lot of flex, I bent and twisted it with my bare hands, also the trigger bottomed out my trigger scale,

after some adjustment it now breaks at clean at 3 1/2 lbs, and I'm looking for a better aftermarket stock.


all in all I like both brands, when I bought them the winchesters were cheaper than the remingtons, I've had good luck with both, so I bought the cheaper one, I also like the wood winchester stocks a bit better.
 
Remmie vs. Winnie

Back in the 70's, I owned a .270 Remington 700 and a Remington .243. Liked them both with one exception. You had put the safety in the fire position to unload the rifles. I had one go off when I did this. (my fault for messing with the trigger rather than letting a competent person do it). My winchester has an intermediate position that prevents this from happening, also it has a 24inch barrel vs. a 22 inch on the remmie.
Has Remmie solved this problem with its' current 700s?
 
I suppose I'm a young curmudgeon, but I like full length claw extractors (for a variety of reasons we can start another to discus). For that reason I like the Winchester model 70 over the Remington 700. Both are fine rifles, and it'll be far easier to find a Remington just like you want it now that the Model 70 is out of production.


The following is my off topic side note.

If you're like me and want a full length claw extractor there are a couple options in currently produced rifles. The new Ruger M77 MKII Hawkeye has a pretty nice trigger out of the box - far better than plain M77 MKIIs - and the price is very competitive. The Kimber 84 and 8400 series rifles are gorgeous and the examples I've handled are very well built. If they fit your budget, they're great rifles.
 
Winchester

but I like full length claw extractors (for a variety of reasons we can start another to discus). For that reason I like the Winchester model 70 over the Remington 700.
Click to expand...

I agree with the full length claw extractors.
H&H Hunter I hope chimes with a comment on this too.

I'm past curmudgeon stage.
I grew up shooting Winchesters, rifles and shotguns.
 
I have a Remington 700 CDL in .30-06 and would love to have a Winchester 70 in 7mm Mag or 7mm-08.
 
The newer Remington 700s can be unloaded while the safety is in the "safe" position but, for this reason ,the bolt can become unlocked inadvertently while on safe; a factor I don't like as this can occur while hunting and, of course, the rifle won't fire in that condition. If a person is handling his/her firearm safely, there is no good reason for having an ad while unloading with the rifle in the "fire" position. For these reasons, I much prefer the older 700s (like the one previous poster don referenced when he experienced his ad) or rifles like the Savage 110 series or the Winchester Model 70 that employ three position safeties, all of which keeps the bolt locked when in the safe position.
 
I don't believe the Model 70 will ever be truly "orphaned" by lack of parts.

And having shot 700's, 70's, 77's and Savages...


Hell, I like 'em all...they ARE firearms folks. :)


But my sentimental side has to go along with the Model 70...just something about Winchesters that get me all...tingly inside. :eek:

Savage comes in a close second.

But...as to availability of blued steel and wood/laminate...I would definately look at Savage first and Remington a close second...my brother has a VERY nice 700 BDL's in 243 and 270 and both are very nice looking long-arms that shoot nicely...he won't let me stone the trigger but this is what he is used to...regardless of that I would NOT be embarrassed to have either of those in my gun-cabinet.

MTCW
D
 
I have a VERY old Winchester M70.....i love it. The trigger was adjustable, so i tweaked it to where i wanted it.

I took it to a local dealer to ask him questions about it and before I got to 10' of the counter he was already making me offers to take it off my hands.

I got it for free...hand me down from pops. Turns out pops got it free too, hand me down from his uncle who also got it free.

I don't remember the exact date we determined it was made, but I reckon by the forging stamps we determined it was pre WW1. Beautiful stock on it, the barrel could use a re-bluing, but other than that it still looks and functions great.
 
I owned a Winchester Stealth I and II and those Winchester rifles shoot amazingly well. I sold both Winchesters and have a Remington 5R. The 5R will shoot very well also, but I miss my Stealth. The Remington has so many aftermarket parts, which is what makes Remington the rifle to go to if you ever decide to upgrade your rifle. If you decide to leave your rifle stock, the Winchester will serve your needs.
 
This is almost a “Ford versus Chevy” argument. I prefer a M70 over the M700 due to more positive extractor grip and a lighter bolt lift. All the M70’s had adjustable triggers, some of the M700 did not. I have a M700 which I have been able to adjust the trigger to about 2.5 pounds.

It is my considered opinion that the Winchester factory trigger is about the most foolproof and reliable of any override mechanism that I have seen. The Remington trigger has had enough accidental discharges to create a great financial liability for that company. I personally think the single stage override trigger is inferior in reliability, durability, and safety to the two stage direct pull military trigger.

When bolt guns ruled the Highpower lines, these actions dominated the match rifle category. Both actions have proved to be fine, durable, reliable actions. If you blow a case head or a primer the M700 is the safer action. Both of these actions are characterized by attention to detail and good engineering. Unfortunately the Pre 64 cost too much to fabricate, and of course, Winchester no longer makes any M70’s.

If history is any guide, the price of used M70’s will start to climb at some point. You can look at any great rifle/shotgun, when it gets discontinued there is a flat period, and then people turn them into collectables.
 
Many wiser pundits have chimed in already.
I have a couple of each, and a couple of the M77 tang safeties too.
Before I handled an M70, I thought I'd never own a bolt gun other than the M77.

The M77 has an easily adjusted trigger, well placed safety, strong built in scope mounts, and a full length claw. The MKII is a controlled round feed, which many prefer, but the "tang" version is not CRF. Mine have accounted for quite a few deer.

My first M700 was an older 7mm mag. Very accurate, and pretty too. Accounted for some deer.

Then I got into the M70s. If you crank the bolts on all three models, and manipulate the safety, you will notice differences. One will probably feel "better" than the others. For me, its still a toss up between the user friendly tang safety and the better feeling bolt throw of the M70...

I've heard the M700 described as the "gunsmith's bread and butter" because while for a production rifle its relatively ready to go, it needs some work to be really accurate and reliable (lighter trigger, stiffer action, better extractor, bolted on bolt handle, stronger bottom metal, stronger recoil lug, etc.). Most of the changes listed parenthetically above the average garage-shop DIY gun owner won't attempt, but the gunsmith loves to hear someone say "blueprint, and bed my M700" because it may mean earning some extra dough to get it to today's ">.5" moa" standard people seem to expect of every firearm they pick up...

I'm not a gunsmith, and the "wisdom" above is worth exactly what you paid for it. And I gleaned it over the last few years of reading worthy posts like this one...
 
I have to wonder if any Model 70 one finds these days isn't an orphan with respect to parts and service.
Click to expand...

My Winchester Model 70 was made in 1939 -- and I haven't had any problems with it being an "orphan." If I need parts, they are readily available -- but I expect it will see me out.

I noticed a metion of a Model 70 made "prior to WWI." The Model 70 was introduced in the mid-1930s. Prior to WWI -- and for quite a while afterwards -- no major manufacturer produced sporting bolt action rifles in the US.
 
I've had multiple Remington 700's through the stable and none have stayed. Biggest gripes, most to least significant:

- Safety mechanism issues (well documented)
- Dinky extractors compared to Winchester and/or Sako
- Bolt slop and failure of safety mechanism to hold bolt closed
- Push-feed is not my cup of tea
- Possibly the worst factory trigger, though that is easily improved by a competent 'smith
- Crappily-manufactured component parts (breakage)
- Bolt shroud and J-lock

Having said all that...they are not a bad rifle. Any manufacturer is going to have issues, and all of them can be fixed by a run to your favorite riflesmith. Just be aware that you're going to need to add about 50% to your Remington purchase price if your tastes are at all refined. If you want a much better out-of-the box machine, look to CZ or Savage.

Again, Remingtons are not a bad gun, but there's just too many better, roughly-equivalent priced alternatives out there.

Maybe it's a Chevy/Ford thing...I just never warmed up to the design. OTOH, Winchesters & Sakos make my day. :D

It doesn't really matter. Just shoot what you have and repair/upgrade it when it breaks. People love to fixate on the hardware...

Rich
 
I've had multiple Remington 700's through the stable and none have stayed. Biggest gripes, most to least significant:

- Safety mechanism issues (well documented)
- Bolt slop and failure of safety mechanism to hold bolt closed
- Push-feed is not my cup of tea
- Possibly the worst factory trigger, though that is easily improved by a competent 'smith
- Crappily-manufactured component parts (breakage)
- Bolt shroud and J-lock
Click to expand...

You're talking my language. I want a safety that locks the bolt down and allows me to load and unload without going hot.

Is anyone from Illon listening? It ain't rocket science, guys.
 
Boy, you'd think I just slapped the Winchester Model 70 owners here by my remarks.

It was just a concern, since Winchester's domestic production facilities are no longer. No need to get hostile, folks. :(

Having said that, I've got an early-model 700 BDL Custom Deluxe that locks the bolt with the safety. I haven't switched it over to the newer style, and when I want to empty the mag, I drop the floorplate vs. cycling the rounds through the chamber.

Of all my Remmie 700/40X/XP-100/788 variants, most had triggers that adjusted quite easily to a crisp light pull. Being a trigger freak myself, those that didn't got new Shilens, Canjars, or Jewells. Most of my Model 70 Winnies were good out of the box, too, especially my pre-'64 variants. However, even some of those wouldn't clean up to my liking and got replaced with better. YMMV, of course.
 
I wouldn't pay extra for a Model 70. Has anyone noticed that the prices have gone up fairly significantly for Model 70s and 94s since the Winchester plant closed? Has anyone seen an actual shortage of them?

I've heard scuttlebutt about how the closed Winchester factory might open again in a year or two- after the current union contract expires. Not sure what this would mean for quality though.
 
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