Winchester Primers in AR-15's

[gipperdog]

I searched for this in past threads & my system didn't offer up anything so I'm sorry if this is a rehash of a past issue.

I just read where you shouldn't use Winchester primers in AR-15's as the primer cup is too soft & can be easily pierced by the floating firing pin of the AR. Anyone had this issue? I've been using the Winchester WSR primer exclusively for several months now & have not had an issue. Was wondering if I'm on borrowed time & extremely lucky or if this is just a non-starter?

 

[MattB000]

Aren't Federals even softer? One would think the same allegation would be flying around about them as well.

 

[koja48]

Post on here somewhere stating that the majority of "slam-fires" at matches involved WW primers. I've heard the new WWs have a copper cup & are softer than the old style. Also read posts from folks who have used them without a problem. I used to use CCI & Remington, 'til I couldn't find them locally & bought 5,000 CCI #41s (milspec primers; anvil is positioned a bit farther from the cup, but it's wise to reduce your loads & work-up again, as they are a bit hotter/magnum primer). Never had a "slam-fire" & don't intend to, if I can avoid it. Federals are often noted as the most sensitive.

 

[NuJudge]

I use several thousand Federal Small Rifle primers a year, and have never seen a pierce. Only if you load on the ragged edge of disaster, the way some of my fellow Service Rifle shooters do, you may have something to worry about.

The only other primer I use in Service Rifle .223 is CCI regular primers. I actually dislike CCI primers, but I have one load which REALLY likes them.

CDD

 

[MutinousDoug]

I had a "slam fire" using WSR primers in competition a few years ago. I think it was due to my using a SLED and pushing the round into the chamber with my pinky before releasing the bolt. Fortunately, this happened on one of my sighters so it didn't cost me points. Since then, I leave the round on the SLED and let the bolt chamber the round and have had no problems (maybe an occasional mis-feed I can deal with). Stripping a round from the magazine slows the bolt significantly more than loading it off a SLED. Chambering a round resting on the SLED apparently retards the bolt speed enough to reduce the tendency to slam fire. Or else I've just been lucky lately. I prefer Remington primers when I can get them but use WSR when that's what I have.

 

[45ACPUSER]

When Winchester quit nickel plating the primers a while back there was some increased incidence of pierced primers in the AR15. I have been using RP 7.5 primers and CCI 450 & BR4 primers with no pierced primers.

 

[koja48]

Fact is, one doesn't have to "pierce" a primer to experience a slam-fire. The free-floating firing pin just has to strike it & they do (AR platform & others), every time (inherent design). A "soft" primer cup or a firing pin "bound-up" by "crud," will make it happen. My "edge" against that is a more robust primer.

 

[loadedround]

I have been using Winchester Large and Small Rifle Primers for over forty years in every type of rifle including full autos and have never experienced this type of problem with the Winchester's. JMHO

 

[mc223]

I did have an issue with WSR primers and 748 powder in 223 AR with 69g SMKs. The day was cool in the early morning but heated up rapidly. By 10:30 A.M. it was about 90°. 2 WSR primers were peirced. I stopped shooting that day, went home and loaded a few more of the 69s with the same charge of 748 and Rem 7-½. Never had another peirced primer. I have since switched to all stick powders and have found better results with the Fed 205 or 205M and CCI 450. I still use the WSRs, but not in the AR. They are reserved for the 38 Super.

 

[The-Fly]

never ever had a problem with WSR and my AR's. Got at least 10k worth through em.

 

[dmftoy1]

Never had a problem with WSR's but I've only loaded/shot maybe 2k worth.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Adventurer_96]

Glad to hear I don't need to throw out the bunch I've bought, since I'll be loading for an AR with them when I get through my CCI 41 stash...

 

[Hoosier Reloader]

I've shot approx 4K-5K WSR rounds with no problems. Been workin good in my AR's.

 

[Ida Noski]

I recall some time ago when this topic came up. Don't have the time to find the link but can add my $0.02.
I've used nothing but Win primers in my AR ammo. Whether putting together loads for Highpower or just for plinking, I use a primer pocket uniformer from Sinclair, http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RECPUN&type=store.
That is the most critical component in the equation to eliminate the possibility of a slamfire.I've never had one myself but have seen others have them on the firing line and it can mess with one's focus when the dirt kicks up a few feet out in front!

Jim

 

[sublimaze41]

Good question. I love Win primers, fair price and they are the same color as the case. I am also glad to hear others are using them for I too bought 10,000 not long ago and am keeping my Dillon busy.

 

[gipperdog]

Thanks for all the info guys. Gun show this past weekend, I made a big leap & bought two cases of the Winchester WSR's for $92 & change each. Hope that was a good price. It appears to the best price around here in Phoenix I've found so far. Thanks again.

 

[ocabj]

I've had bad luck with Winchester primers in the AR. In hot NATO style loads, primers would pop out and the anvil would actually separate from the cup and jam up the bolt. In medium loads (24.0gr of Varget or RL15 with a 77gr), I would get a pierced primer, maybe 1 in every 75 rounds.

I switched to CCI BR4 and #400 specifically for the AR. My problems went away.

Use whatever works for you.

 

[cbsbyte]

I use Winchester primers exclusively for reloading. They are not as hard as CCI primers, but harder than Federal. Most of my reloading is for my bolt action surplus military rifles, which have heavy firing pin springs. Some pins will leave a deep impression in the primer but none have pierce through the primer cap. I doubt an light Ar-15 bolt will pierce one. The main reason to use harder primers on auto rifles is that the pin does make light contact with the primer when the bolt closes, so the theory is lighter primers might go off. In this cases I would not use Federal primers but WSR should be fine but make sure first by testing.

 

[distra]

I think the key to preventing slam fires in the AR or SKS is proper cleaning of the bolt and firing pin. If your firing pin does not move freely, it can get stuck in the "out" position and cause a slam fire. As for primer "hardness", CCI > Win > Fed has been my experience. No matter which primer you use your chances of slam fires can be greatly reduced by proper cleaning and maintenance.

 

[Slamfire]

WSR brass finish primers are evil!! Before 44 rounds had been fired in my Space Gun Match Rifle, I had firing pin tip ruined due to scalloping caused by pierced primers. Before you think I am running hot loads, the load I was using out to 300 yards was 69 Sierra 21.5 grains N135, Fed cases WSR (brass). This load chronographs at 2818 fps in my Krieger barreled Space Gun. I used a hotter load of 80 Sierra 23.5 grains N140 W/W cases and CCI 41 (mil spec primer) at 600 yards and never had a single pierced primer even though that scalloped firing pin tip creates a stress riser.

I loaded up my Camp Perry ammunition out of my last bunch of good old Nickle plated WSR. Used a load of 69 Sierra and 23.5 grains AA4064. Had zero pierced primers. Would have eaten up a firing pin per day if I had been using brass finish WSR.

I am using CCI 41’s at 600 yards, I have shot good Long Range scores at Perry with the things, nothing less than a 197, and they don’t pierce.